Buff Kruber's Repeater and handgun

Heh, IB with drakegun is only useful up close while the blunderbuss will wreck hordes at much further ranges in seconds. There isn’t really any competition there if you are going for kills. Not to mention that the drakegun is nearly useless vs most specials. A good huntsman with blunderbuss can even give the beam pyro a good run for their money if you are really gunning for kills.

Also, if anything, an IB is lacking damage talents, meaning that the only thing going for him is being hard to kill. IB lacks dps when played at a higher skill level as say ranger, while slayer is better for the team on legend due to his killing power vs cw.

Blunderbuss’ capacity and fire rate are trash in V2. If you’re getting hella kills with it, the team isn’t carrying its weight at all.

An IB with pretty much any ranged weapon should be performing better. Drakegun would be a subpar choice. IB is not lacking for DPS except for bosses. This has always been true of Bardin, even in V1.

Everything Kruber does is slow and clumsy relative to other characters. Hunter is passable with longbow but still nothing to write home about. Either support class, if being greedy for kills, is just slowing the group down if they start blocking shots trying to DPS.

If you are approaching a beam pyro’s output on hunter blunderbuss, that Pyro is very bad.

Pretty much every character but Kruber is capable of breaking 1k kills and 10k damage right now with regularity on at least one of their classes. Kruber would need to be fed in the extreme for this to happen.

Kruber needs badly to be buffed in terms of DPS output, specifically in the ranged department.

Well, surprise, it isn’t as bad as you think it is. Do you even know what is active reload? Scrounger with crit builds on merc/huntsman gives lots of ammo regardless of the ammo capacity, and bashing with the high crit chance gives you back ammo. Just how much experience do you have using it? Do you know just how fast you can be shooting with the blunderbuss on huntsman if you do it right (not even counting the cheese strat)?

Slow maybe, but he does make up in a lot of ways that beats the other characters. Merc can yolo charge into a hyperdense chaos horde and come out with minimal damage, blunderbuss huntsman can shred most of a wave in a single shot, manbow can kill bosses stupidly fast even on legend and delete elites (including CW) like nobody’s business. Why don’t you learn how far you can push a character with some skill before you diss it?

Nope, I’ve played with good pyros and I’ve beaten them as well. Beam is good at long range single target damage and short range aoe, but midrange it loses out to the blunderbuss. You can wave your beam around and in that second I’ll blast most of the mobs you are still trying to beam dead with a single shot.

This tells me you’ve been playing it wrong. Don’t dawdle on legend runs (if you are even playing that) and maybe you won’t have to face that many to kill.

The only thing kruber really needs is for his handgun to be buffed, and maybe a bit more ammo on the repeater. Otherwise his careers/weapons are in a pretty good place now.

Sigmar bless these ravaged guns!

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5 shots, or one from the handgun? Not a hard choice for me.

I said it was the best weapon on merc/fk, goes without saying that I tried snapshotting with it.

And when the specials aren’t in melee range, what’s the blunderbuss do then? Go boom and make confetti? @vintagerum already said it well, you don’t need a ranged weapon for what melee has covered.

Your persistence here was enough to make me boot the game up and double check, and the handgun still outperforms the blunderbuss at what I’d call a barely “ranged-worthy” range. Blunderbuss hits between 1-3 pellets here for 875 each with no gear equipped (364 power), averaging 1750 damage with some single-pellet duds occurring on rare occasion. Meanwhile the handgun consistently hipfires for 2600 about 95% of the time, which you could easily get to 100% if you take the half second to right click.

I tested this too and everything you’re saying about the grudgeraker is manifestly wrong. Both with and without accuracy talents the grudgeraker is far more accurate and lands more pellets to target with only a single shot.

You were right about them doing the same damage per pellet though. Given that and the better accuracy and double shot, I don’t see how you could have made any of those observations from real experience in game.

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I have hundreds of hours on Kruber from both V1 and V2 and know him extremely well. In V2, his DPS is simply inferior to that of other classes. This isn’t the case in V1. Like I said, stop comparing your performance to that of others and compare it to your own performance on those classes. Trying to do the former is worthless. Just because -I- can beat people on Kruber =/= Kruber is on par with those classes… Anyone who’s supposedly good enough to do that should comprehend that it’s a totally subjective and meaningless method for assessing a class’ performance in any game.

Those kills and damage are in competent teams doing legend as quickly as possible. If you aren’t approaching that, you’re the one who’s doing it wrong.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. I can’t bear to play Footknight or Mercenary because I hate their ranged weapons so goddamn much. Which is why 90%+ of the time I play Kruber I play Huntsman. Hatred for all other non exclusive ranged weapons shouldn’t be what makes me want to play a class.

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I only agree with one of dieaready’s comments… if you’re reaching 1000 kills on a run… damn dude. I don’t think I’ve ever passed 400 ( usually even 300) where I was top kills.

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Some of this might be due to how buggy the director is for different people but if I don’t get 1k kills on pretty much any DPS I feel like I’ve failed and on IB I kinda expect to do it anyways cuz of how effective he is at horde clearing with pistols. If the comp demands I take a grudgeraker I don’t pressure myself as much.

Beam pyro it’s basically always well over 1k kills and 13k-21k+ damage. Except in brachsenbrucke (level is extremely short)

Goes without saying but Kruber can’t touch that or any other character’s numbers. He’s hamstringed right now. He’s the only character I just won’t play amymore because of how limited he is atm.

Are you doing solo legend? I just never have seen anyone have to break 500 kills in any of my legend runs thus far.

No. Always group, usually with very skilled/competent friends. I’m very aggressive but sometimes they’ll still approach my output, especially on Chaos maps where I have to burn heads on rot helms more often. I’m not saying this to brag but rather to point out where the bar is for DPS potential, and I don’t consider myself to be that good because I still make mistakes. A lot of my friends do the same output, I can tell from their screenshots. When I hear people say, " I can beat other people on Kruber!" my immediate response is, “Cool story… Are they any good though?”

I don’t solo legend much but friends who do usually approach 26-30k damage (non speed run). It’s entirely reasonable for 2-3 people to deal over 10k damage each in any given legend run.

The only character I don’t reliably get this kinda dps output with is Kruber, because he is a glorified babysitter right now who’s best suited for sitting on his stun and protecting the better DPS in general. I haven’t done hunter in a while since the changes but no amount of active reload and lucky procs compensates for how lackluster he is when it comes to bringing the pain to either hordes or bosses. The only way for him to approach these numbers is for the rest of the group to be doing a very, very bad job to the point you’re not going to win anyways.

The secret is that the blunderbuss spread is currently bugged and the spread is actually centered above the dot in the crosshair. The bottom most pellet actually hits slightly below the crosshair, you can confirm that by shooting the wall. Then swap to Bardin and fire the grudge against the wall at the same distance and compare the spread size. :wink: Try it out at around 10m and not up against the wall and you can see that there isn’t much difference between the two. Now go back and aim lower at the target and try shooting again.

Maybe it is because I’m getting info from dataminers?

Yeah, and I’ve got over 1k hrs in V1 and know how to play most characters/careers well. I’m still lacking compared to the other vets, some of them which have over 2k hrs. Also, I’m THE blunderbuss man, you can find me in all 3 of the major discords if you want to chat.

I’ve already stated why I am able to beat the other careers in terms of damage and kills based on game mechanics. At this point I can’t really be bothered to argue any more unless you can bring up game mechanics on why the IB is better at killing stuff.

Let me get this straight, so you are saying:

MORE kills = MORE efficient = Faster runs
LESS kills = LESS efficient = Slower runs

I think i’m done here…

didnt read thread but i would also like a buff to the repeater, (preferably getting ammo fed back into the chamber when you use the huntsman career ability so i can be a minigun kruber)

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  • handgun: it can 1bodyshot SV, flame, gatling and gutter, it can 1headshot stormer, leech, berserker… exactly like bow (and also both need 2bodyshot to kill CW with active). But bow has more penetration, rate of fire, versatility, ammunitions;

  • blunderbuss: it does not inflict damage to bosses. Maybe acceptable for Merch/FK, they aren’t bosses killer careers, ma for an Huntsman it is simply ridicolous. Also it can kill armoured specials (SV, flame, gatling) only at extreme short range. Again unacceptable for a bosses/specials killer like Huntsman.

  • rep gun: it has not good penetration, so it is useless against crowd. Less damage per second to bosses/specials in comparison with bow (and maybe also handgun).

I don’t know if Fatshark should buff these weapons or should change some huntsman’s talents or both… but something must change.

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Then you’re a slow learner, not as good with other classes as you think you are, and should stop judging a class based on your performance relative to other people. I think green circles are stupid but I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve not gotten all the right ones in a run, including while leveling. If I beat a 30 pyro when I’m a 15 bh, does that mean BH is intrinsically superior to pyro? Obviously not. Stop using a subjective, meaningless metric to gauge performance. You getting green circles on Kruber is an indictment of your team, not evidence Kruber’s DPS is as good as other characters’.

Let me make this real easy for you:

  • Just because I get 1k kills doesn’t mean the level took longer… It means other people got fewer kills… Because I killed things before they did. Because I killed f’in -everything- because that’s what other characters are capable of doing if the player is aggro and twitch af and knows how to do that without dying or being a detriment to the team. Because I wasn’t on an inferior DPS like Kruber. Specifically because I like being able to kill things whenever the hell I want and not when my inferior kit/gear/talents dictate I can. Versatility = DPS potential = kills = winning. Kruber doesn’t have it.
  • If a group only stops to kill certain hordes and doesn’t even stop for several, the level is being done in an efficient manner. This is always the case or else I wouldn’t bother mentioning stats… F’in obviously…
  • subjective = subjective. The ai director is bugged so you might be getting considerably easier runs than other people. It sounds like this is the case. This further demonstrates why its stupid to compare your performance to others when trying to assess a class. It’s like a Handmaiden thinking they’re amazing because they’re the only one alive when they’re the only one who can avoid 100% of damage while running around a level with a train of mobs. It’s a dumb, useless metric on which to base objective analysis.

We get it… Kruber is your best character. Him being your best character doesn’t mean his DPS output approaches that of other classes under any circumstances.

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I’m about done humoring you, you’ve gotten this whole thread way off track. But here you go:

Aiming down did marginally improve performance of the blunderbuss increasing pellet hits to 2-5 wtih most shots landing 2 pellets, which is still worse average damage than both the handgun’s single shot and grudgeraker’s double shot.

If you have at least decent aim the handgun will do the job better at this range and still afford you good damage beyond it. I’m surprised you even had the gall to even suggest this thing was workable against stormers.

Now you could please stop flooding this thread with nonsense? We’re trying to talking about diversifying the huntsman.

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One thing I can agree with. But like I’ve said, I’ve also played with good players and I’ve also beaten them or given them a good run. I’ve also brought up the mechanics on why it is possible while you have not explained why it is wrong.

So it isn’t that your team sucked as you were saying earlier? Interesting double standard.

Sounds more like teamwork than anything, letting the hordes build up then nuking them all at once. Anything with good AoE basically will do the same.

Considering that the average legend run in somewhere in the region of 1.5k to 2k kills, claiming to get 1k kills, while not improbable, isn’t saying much of the rest of the team.

Good job hitting a stationary target while standing still with a handgun. Try a moving target while moving in a horde.

Considering that blightstormers have a much fatter body than the dummy and that you only need to land 5 pellets (or less with some power vs chaos/inf) out of the 12, it is very doable with the blunderbuss.

I’ve already said at the start:

No, if I reliably get 1k kills regardless of who I’m playing with over hundreds of hours, I can objectively assure you it’s not because the team sucks.

What a troll.

Edit: Also, if you think hitting a moving target is enough of a challenge to be worth mentioning, that’s telling.

unrelated to the balance discussion but i’m genuinely curious what you’re doing to get 1k kills because most matches barely break 1k mobs in total and it’s been this way for a long time.

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Yeah we may have just discovered the world’s meme’est elf.

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