Raw damage auras are boring as hell and become the default pick for most classes that have them. Arbites auras are a joke and he just released.
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Great post. Every critique and suggestion is completely on point.
and yet he makes the zealot and veteran pointless by comparison
Here, I have a more thorough reimagining of vet’s skill tree.
First couple of levels are vet’s “basic training” arch.
Firstly, all vets have Scavenger baked in as the first node. No more survivalist aura. All vets can gain ammo back upon a specialist kill. There is an internal cooldown for this, much like there is for Survivalist now.
Nodes branch out to the current three methods of regaining toughness. Ranged headshot kills. elite kills and specialist kills. all kills. Perhaps a few side nodes here like there is now for roughly the same things.
The nodes come back together to converge on demolition stockpile. A few more stat nodes before they come to the a big three separation.
Scavenger upgrade to the left, grenade tinker down the middle, and iron will on the right. Two more nodes underneath each of them that then converge on an aura. Each of them is potent, and you can have all of them but it will be a potent node tax.
Ranged damage and bonuses and extra ammo from scavenger for ranged builds on the left.
More powerful grenades and support nodes, like buffing allies on ranged kill, or giving toughness to others when killing, etc down the middle.
The big toughness damage reduction, melee damage and crit on the right.
All of these then lead into an aura. Since survivalist is gone, I’d go with weakspot/crit damage increase aura (vet’s new base aura would be just weakspot damage increase).
Everything converges again, mandatory node tax for big toughness or health (or both), then converge again into abilities.
Executioner stance is mostly fine, but I’d love it if the vision was given to allies as a default. It refreshes on elite enemy kills. One node to have it refresh on all human-sized enemies. The other to automatically reload on ogryn kills (might be too strong). These would be mutually exclusive.
VoC is left untouched for now.
Infiltrate, you’ll have to slightly lower the cooldown or reduce the amount of side nodes it has. Personally, I think increasing damage by 30 percent for 5 seconds should be baked in but at a lower value. I’d say 15 percent. Leave the other three nodes as they are.
I’ll talk about my ideas for the keystones next. They’re mostly in a good spot, and I think all of them can be super good if you have the nodes to pay for their upgrades, though I certainly think some of the upgrades for each are worse (much worse then the others).
Veteran should be improved somewhat.
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Where and how do you think he should be touched up?
Oh, if only I got 1 Aquila every time a veteran comes to victimize their class in a post, I’d already have all the paid skins in the game.
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Because its quite noticeable how much veteran has been neglected in terms of content and build variety
This became even more noticeable after the arbites release as the class is essentially what a shouldve been in terms of build variety
Vet also hasnt got any new unique weapons in his kit in almost a year
And now that fatshark revealed that zealot is the next in terms of reworks made it kinda noticeable how much vet has been shafted
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when did they reveal that zealot was next?
In the patchnotes when arbites got released
vet is fine. just because 1 arbitrator in team is enough that the others can go afk in havoc 40 it doesnt mean that its a good thing. honestly he makes even the reworked ogryn look useless. i wouldnt want vet or any other class to be that strong because theres no mode in game that is still fun to play with just ONE arbite in lobby.
Well that sucks
I’m not calling you a liar. But can you kindly quote where it was stated in the patch notes. I have read it a couple of time and I can’t seem to find any mention of a zealot rework.
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Very nice summary. But I’d add two more things:
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Something needs to happen with auras, or Survivalist will keep being the only real pick. I personally wouldn’t mind removing ammo regen from the tree - it messes with ammo reserve balance anyway. Other auras should bring something impactful too. Fire Team’s +5% damage? Drop in the ocean. It’s nothing.
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Keystones need a rework to be more generic, reliable, and less restrictive. Having to switch to a gun just to get an attack speed bonus for your melee weapon is distracting nonsense, that breaks the natural flow of the game. Or the Marksman should also be a solid pick for semi-auto or single-shot weapons. And keystone modifiers? Way too many “never pick” ones that need to be looked at again.
Curious, this is not the first time i hear the argument
How and why? You mean the ammo reserve the veteran can carry? Or the ammo reserve on the map?
I don’t wanna be rude, but i fail to see how a class with a ranged niche would benefit from less ammo being available. Besides that, this being talked within the context of veteran falling behind is actually quite baffling.
Less ammo for better veteran isn’t something easy to subscribe to nor is it exactly self-explanatory and more in-depth explanation would be definitely nice
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Less or more ammo - Really dependent on the ground ammo pickups. Quickplay depends on how willing team is sharing ammo. Chances are someone is zipping ahead to grab it all.
A Vet could get lucky and end up with a team of 2 Psykers who don’t use ammo or a team with Arbites/Zealot who will outpace to grab it first.
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I honestly think every class needs a pass for node taxes.
Ogryn is in pretty good shape in this regard, but Veteran, Zealot, and Psyker desperately need some tightening up in their trees by comparison to Oggy and Arbites.
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Well i for one would really like to see it explained, that’s all.
I mean maybe its an actual way to make veteran better, but its generally thrown around like if everyone is already on it…
I for one can’t conjure an explation why is ammo regen on its own a bad thing for a class with ranged niche, even thou i can see the point about it not being a keystone just fine.
Same goes for the ammo reserve, how is it really messing with it and why should the ammo reserve not be messed with to begin with?
We might as well assume the ammo reserve is “tailored” with ammo regen already accounted for and as such maybe we should first establish if the ammo reserve is indeed being messed with in the first place
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Honestly, Arbites shows that every other class has an extremely badly designed talent tree with low-impact talents and way too many travel nodes. Even things as basic as “Lumping most of the toughness stuff at the top and making them actually good” is lost on a lot of classes. Yes, most classes have their toughness talents at the top of the tree. Arbites have a lot more, and they’re a lot better designed. All the powerful stuff is easy access and highly competitive with other genuinely powerful things. Very few talents feel like dead picks on the arbiter. I have to choose if I want to overload toughness talents, or grab toughness+tdr, go for having a pet or not, having toughness by being near the pet or not, toughness on blocking or not. On killing elites or not.
I wish psyker had a talent that was like: “Regen toughness the less peril you have.” And a second of “Regen toughness the more peril you have.” If you got both, it’d be a permanent, say, 7.5% toughness per second at all times, but cost 2 talent points. Even something as basic as ‘Toughness on stagger’ is a huge step up from almost every other class not named ogryn.
There’s just a lot of things arbites has going for it that other classes don’t, and it really does, to me, feel like it comes down to the quality of the talent tree.
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