An in-depth look at issues regarding beastmen

There’s been a lot of criticism regarding beastmen, and while a lot of steps have been taken to bring them down to the level of skaven & chaos, there’s still a lot of work to be done. I feel like a lot of the complaints have been very “broad”, without looking at the specifics of what make the beastmen so much harder than the other factions. This is very understandable, it’s hard to pin-point exactly what went wrong in the heat of battle, and most people don’t record their sessions to look back at either.

This is an attempt to really specify the things that are problematic with Beastmen, and with some of my very subjective suggestions on what can be done to alleviate the issues. The thread will be a work in progress and I will update it with more scenarios/videos as I go.

1. Poor visibility/contrast, especially for Gors

With the speed at which they deal heavy damage, Gors need to be much easier to read visually. As it stands, a horde primarily composed of Gors will look like an undiscernible dark blob. This is especially bad as they have a multitude of attacks that don’t involve swinging their weapon, which makes it even harder to see their attacks coming in time.

2. Gor Kicks

This attack gets a big “no thanks” from me. The attack is not the most damaging in their arsenal, but the unreadability and speed of it makes it incredibly disruptive and annoying to fight, especially in dense hordes where you’re looking for openings to attack.

Compare this to the Chaos Warriors kick:

There’s a couple of things that makes this one a lot fairer, even though they’re almost equally fast:

  1. Because of the way he lifts his weapon up before the kick comes out, you can prepare yourself for it.
  2. Chaos warriors are taller, meaning their legs are more noticable in your field of view
  3. They’re elite enemies and fewer in numbers, meaning you’re less likely to eat these in rapid succession from multiple CWs
  4. Chaos Warriors have more contrast to them compared to Gors, meaning it’s easier to see what they’re doing visually. They’re also pingable, which makes their actions very readable.

Gors have a diverse move-set as is, and I wouldn’t shed a tear if this attack was removed entirely from them.

3. Gor Headbutts

I’m still a little torn on these. There’s a chance they could feel fair if Gor visibility was bumped up as mentioned earlier, but as it stands they’re very hard to distinguish in hordes, and I’ve often confused their “pulling back pre-headbutt” animation as a stagger animation. This might be less of an issue after extended playtime against them, but at present is annoying to deal with.

4. Gors skip part of their climbing animations

This is a pretty big oversight and makes them absolutely deadly to fight near ledges. Compare it to how marauders look when climbing:

And slave rats:

This last gif with the slave rats amusingly highlight a completely different issue with the slot system, forcing one of the slaves into a running attack as he’s switching slots, even though I’m not making any attempt at movement.

5. Ghost swings, or other hitbox issues

I’ve had most of these occur with the ungors. Their model sometimes doesn’t wanna interact with weapons at all. Their stabbing animations also makes them duck very low, meaning that if you’re aiming at head-level into hordes for damage you’re often times going to be swinging above their heads and get poked as a result.

6. Banners

I like what the banners bring to Vermintide overall, forcing a team to make a choice between pushing for banners or falling back out of their range (or just grinding it out if you’re feeling suicidal). There’s a discussion to be had regarding the amount of buffs they provide, or the amount of them you sometimes get in cramped spaces. Feel free to discuss this below, I might get back to this in a later edit as well, but for now I wanna talk more about the Wargors (Banner carriers) themselves.

They’ve got hyper-armoured bodies similar to a Chaos Warrior, but with an exposed head. This means that they’re very hard to take down at range, and requires some pin-point headshots or a well-placed career skill (Pyro, WS or BH).

What I don’t agree with is the amount of health they have for how armoured they are, especially on Cataclysm.

This is a Handgun on Mercenary, with +40% dmg vs. Chaos/Armor. It does not one-shot a Wargor on a headshot. It one-shots every other special in the head with substantially less power vs.

This is a Longbow on Waystalker, with +40% dmg vs. Chaos/Armor. It’s also not even close to one-shotting them on headshots, and if you go for anything less than +20% dmg vs Chaos/Armor, it takes three(!) charged headshots to kill it. This set-up also one-shots every other special in the head on cataclysm, same as the previous example.

For how disruptive the banners are, you’d think killing them before they’re placed would be incentivized, but it’s not. As is stands, Wargors need to either have their super armour removed if you want them this tanky, meaning you can at least do more damage on bodyshots and keep them staggered, or you reduce their health / headshot resistance to that of other specials.

7. Beastmen health

There are some people who feel that beastmen are way too tanky, so here’s a picture detailing current health values on all difficulties:

Gors are apparently a lot squishier than the chaos equivalent of a marauder, and ungors are quite squishy as well. Bestigors are a little beefier than your stormvermin equivalent, but not by a huge margin.

My thinking is that they’re percieved as tanky because of the density they spawn in during hordes, and/or their stagger resistance. I don’t have any numbers for average beastmen spawned in hordes compared to other races, nor the numbers for their stagger-resistance. If someone else has this resource, feel free to share it below, otherwise I’ll come back to this when I have more info.

8. Beastmen damage

As far as I’ve heard, Gors are the biggest offender here, with attacks doing up to 75 damage / hit on cataclysm. I haven’t had time to test which specific attacks do the most/least damage, so I’ll have to come back to this. But with the overall speed of a lot of their attacks, and with the other issues plaguing them, it feels like it might be a bit on the high side. Marauders have attacks dealing upwards of 63 damage, for comparison. Ungors seem to be hovering around 30 dmg / hit, which isn’t the end of the world if their other issues are fixed.

That about does it for a first draft. As said, I’ll come back to this with more issues when I find them and flesh out some of the already written segments.

Feel free to add more stuff in the comments, but try to keep it as constructive as possible, I don’t want this thread to derail into some anti-WoM hatefest.


One other issue could be the stamina damage that beastmen deal. While i don’t know all of the values, the Gor standing headbutt and punch do 4 stamina damage (2 stamina shields); so 2-3 of them can easily break anyone’s block.

There’s also the issue that in a beastmen horde you often have 2 rows of units hitting you at the same time, because of the Ungor’s spear range. When combined with the very high density of beastmen hordes, it makes them several times harder to fight than chaos or skaven.

Also, the running attacks for Gors and Ungors are really fast and they usually don’t play a backstab sound, or it plays way too late. Overall I feel like half of the animations are too fast to properly react to, even on low ping.


Nice post.
In the video and picture from the store page you can see gors and bestigor with much lighter fur/armor. I wonder why that’s not in the game.

I swear I didn’t read anything about beastmen balance fixes, what’s been done already? I must have missed something.

There have been suggestions about leaving them strong, but reducing their numbers a bit. I prefer this route to a straight nerf. I like their identity (except the stealthy beastmen part).

Last: my biggest concern is having them in old maps (story reasons, immersion).
I’d prefer to have them on new maps and weaves only, but at least we shouldn’t get that many, virtually anywhere.
Something tasteful, like having them on forest sections only, or where it really makes sense would be my second choice. If you go this way, please add some dialogues to acknowledge them.

PS: slightly OT reflection: I know specials are fun, and we have mostly skaven specials, but I think it would be interesting to try not having them on dark omens or chaos only sections of maps. Maybe I’m wrong and it would get boring, but it feels a bit off having a pack master or a ratling gun pop out of nowhere. Not having those means you can go a bit overboard with the rest of the enemies / berserkers which could be fun


Correct, there has been ZERO changes made to beastmen.

I agree, that no changes should be made to them other than cutting their horde size in half. The amount of (literal) BULL that players have to deal with is absurd. The time it took myself and group of skilled players to deal with 1 horde/Banner, another will have spawned, creating a near infinite cycle.

The only true solution (atm) to not dealing with beastmen is to NOT own the DLC. All the games I’ve hosted contain zero beastmen. Or maybe I’m wrong and that they will spawn on any map despite me not owning the DLC and I’ve just been 100% lucky thus far.

Either ways, more reason not to invest in this garbage heap,…atm.

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There have been a lot of changes made to beastmen since the pre-release WoM betas, so this is false.

I also specifically asked that we keep the discussion as constructive as possible, so I’d appreciate it if you don’t derail it the first thing you do, thanks.


I wasn’t trying to derail, it was an honest question.

Gameplay wise the worst offender is they being silent, spawning to close behind. And spears going through bodies

I think both of our thought process is that there has been no change since the official release, despite 7 patches already. Changes from beta mean nothing, that’s what beta is meant for. If there has been any changes since Aug 13th, please share.

As far as criticism, I said I agreed with the current state that they are in, just cut the numbers in half in order for them to be tolerable.

Anyone who can’t deal with any beastmen for any reason, the solution is to not own the DLC. That is all I’m saying.

I wasn’t replying to you, sorry if I came of as hostile!


You could check the patch notes again before stating there have been no changes made to beastmen since the game went live. You can see bug fixes and stagger / cleave changes, among other things :^)

Bravo @Fattigkussen , this is imo the best post yet on breaking down the current problems with beastmen.

I can’t think of anything to add off the top of my head right now.


and…what specific changes to beastmen traits were made? Bug fixes does not count as a change…(and yes I’ve been reading the patch notes, nothing beastmen related caught my attention)
Whatever changes that may or may not exist, the current state is what a lot of people are complaining about. I’m actually NOT complaining about how beastmen operate, rather I’m with anyone who thinks their numbers are too great to deal with fairly.

And gors have elite damage level its kinda stupid that they can deal you for 60 dmg with fast attack in horde.


Agree with all your feedback. I’m just gonna say that, most notably in Cataclysm because of mixed horde spawns, the fact Beastmen don’t get a shield unit actually makes hordes a lot simpler to cleave through. Just a small thing I’ve observed.


Main problem would be the Gor frontline generally being taller then the Ungor backline who can stab through the Gor’s without the player knowing.

It would be like having Skaven Slave sized Stormvermin using their overhead slash attack behind a bunch of Stormvermin sized Skaven Slave when in reality it just sits back taunting you.

For this reason the beastmen are flawed and poorly designed.

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Armored (aside from SV) or Beastmen units with shields would be…beyond kicking a dead horse, you’re now desecrating it. Which…I think would be very interesting to deal with IF the gimmick to deal with shield units is that I’m allowed aim low and hack off their legs to circumvent their shield wall (as opposed to the current state where shield units auto block frontal attacks regardless of altitude).

The only viable solution with shield is to push attack them, and 30% stamina regen isn’t going to cut it (even for/with Handmaiden) if you have to deal with an entire horde of shields.

Nice analysis and good post.
I really don’t understand, why those banner carriers have super armour. You should think “Oh I better kill that special, before he can put that thing down”, but unless you have some ranged weapon, that can punch through super armour or some auto aim like sienna’s burning head (or you are quite good at hitting headshots), you’ll have a hard time.
Currently it’s easier to just wait for him to put the banner down and then try to destroy the banner.

+1 wanted to add that, too. You also can’t see those small ungors, because there are big beefy gors in front of you, which already require most or all of your attention.

The backstab sound not playing is still a bug I think. Also I often don’t hear the sound of a horde, instead it just appears and you don’t have any time to prepare for it.
I always felt like some of those attacks are almost or just as fast as the chaos warrior one handed punch, which is really hard to dodge or block, especially with ping.


The silliest thing about shielded enemies is that if you hit them while they are staggered they close their guard again, so allies are usually a hindrance instead of a help because they are hitting the enemy too.

Somehow I’m sure if we could get our stamina back by being hammered it would be fixed asap :stuck_out_tongue:

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Which is?

I’d also appreciate it if you made a range comparison.

I brought this up during the beta, that the wargor has an identity crisis.
They should be either specials - killable BEFORE doing harm. Probably lose super armor but gain some additional health that they might require the focus fire of 2 person.
CW caliber elites where they have the banner on their body (like samurai) and lead their party on the front.

I found that kicks and headbutts do the same, least damage, then comes the punch and the biggest is with the weapon.

Great post. I agree.

If I can add something:

  • you right, Beastmen haven’t more HP. But currently fighting them is like if Chaos hordes were full of Maulers. Gors are just too numerous. For a BIG step toward to a better balance, Fatshark could just reduce their number, in order to have:

    • Skaven: numerous but weak

    • Beastmen: strong but few

    • Chaos: an half way

    But imho some “bugs” (imho they aren’t real bugs, but totally unfair things that must be just removed) should still be fixed, like their “invisibility” or their insta-attacks.

  • if banner makes Beastmen immortal, it will be always unbalanced in certain situations. Sometimes you can push and destroy it, sometimes you get stuck regardless your ability. Moreover we can also have 2-4 banner guys that spawn almost at the same time (thing that must be fixed).
    An easy nerf should be change its buff. Banner should add just more damage. In this way hordes would be still harder, but a good team could still win thanks teammates’ skill (dodging the attacks).
    I can understand that some players love to use FK or similar careers to push the banner… but imho this will be always too risky (and sometimes just unfair/impossible).

  • Minotaur: imho it is too stong (too much damage and too tough and too fast), but the real problem is that it is a Berserker. If I dedicate my build to monster damage to have a boss killer career, it is unfair that I haven’t nothing against this boss.

  • Archers: they seem just annoying and not necessary. Anyway their stagger power are nonsense.

  • Spear-guys: already Beastmen have unpredictable attacks… if we add that those spears, concelead into that dark blob, can hit you through kilometres… I think it is too much.

  • Bugs: we have some old bugs, like enemies that spawn on your back without sound… and this concerns every faction. But Beatmen seem the “most hit”.

For the rest, your post is perfect. Beastmen, compared with Skaven and Chaos, have more damage, more agility, more attack speed, unpredictable attacks, more stagger resistence… but their are NOT less numerous. Vermintide factions are meant to have pro and cons. Ironically, if I wanted to maximize my victory chance, I should restart until I don’t see them at the start.