First of all an excellent post was a total blast to read and highlights really well the current issues with these enemies.
I’ve said this plenty of times in other topics but my biggest gripes really are around the inexcusable damage gors can do even while multiple models are in close proximity, 75 damage with such a fast attack speed is in my opinion more of an elite level damage than something that should be an “basic” enemy types attack damage.
Not to mention the multiple different attacks they can do compared to other basic types of enemies makes them really tricky to read and play around. I honestly did not even know before this that they can kick … so one more thing to lookout i suppose.
Other than that i think they should be ok even with the current numbers once the bugs around them are fixed. They are pretty cleavable and manageable if you just don’t take 2 instant hits to your face but that’s easier said than done currently.
Banner bearers: i totally agree need to be either less tanky so you can actually somewhat reliably snipe them before they get in range or alternative make the banner effect instead slightly weaker i’m personally fine with either approach and both could be in their own way interesting. However the current iteration where they are both super elite and a dangerous special is definitely bit too much. Honestly from my experience the nr1 party wiper currently in cata.
I guess the only relevant thing really to add here is the fact that especially during ambushes beastman enemies really do not make any sounds at all so sometimes you could have horde of gors literally next to you without you even noticing it. Had multiple wipes already due to this and they really need more audio cues when they are moving around. This does not only apply to beastman currently had this even with chaos enemies today but it is definitely most noticeable with them.
Excellent post, an impressive amount of work went into providing proof and that is outstanding, compared to some other topics. I sorry to not be able to follow the trend, I haven’t any videos at my disposal, for now. But here is something else to consider: their spawn. Sometimes in Cata, they can, without any warning, just appear in your back, from nowhere, I wish I had captured it, i ll try to record my next game to picture it, but you could be retreating from a banner to be stuck by an impressive angry meat shield spawning on you
IDK what happened there, but that happens to me and I’m sure a lot of other people very often. Even more now with silent cows and SV. You clear a room or a hallway, turn around and get insta gibbed.
Yes thank I only want to point out that sometimes it is an entire cow ambush. I guess the advantage is you can t even look around to see what happened, with their number and damage, you are in another plane of existence in an instant
This post is brilliant, thank you for the time to put it together. I really hope the right people at FS read it.
I would also like to add a comment on sound, a dozen cows running up behind you or dropping down a ledge next to you often make no noise at all. This combined with the back stab sound not working consistently results in some very unfair feeling deaths.
Thank you for taking the time to document this stuff, it really helps make the issues more concrete and hopefully push towards their refinement. it really helps to have more substantial things to discuss. Though it seems their silent, sudden swarming behavior during their ambushes is a big source of the problem too.
I also did some testing of my own with the creature spawner mod and the issues really become apparent in controlled situations.
The kicks are so hard to see and have poor animation anticipation time even with just a single gor. The headbutts do not read from the front at all, you can tell much better from a side view but not when your the target.
For damage reference the kicks/headbutt do 40 damage on legend and the weapon swing does 62, while chaos marauders do 50 with their own swings. ungor spear pokes do 25.
I’ve heard people complain about chip damage through block but I cannot find any of their attacks that do so.
Overall the gor weapon swings are fine to read and anticipate and on par with others, though the increased damage when so many gors group together are likely the source of the “%$&#! I got 1 hit” situations. I am all for the kick being removed entirely or just changed to a shove animation that deals no damage and just zones the player if they get too close like some enemies do. If the headbutt were to remain in it would need to be reanimated in my opinion as their running attack only with much clearer threat posing.
I only want to point out that sometimes it is an entire cow ambush. I guess the advantage is you can t even look around to see what happened, with their number and damage, you are in another plane of existence in an instant