Allow us to hide info that players see via mods

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide Gameplay Feedback
21

Because it lowers the chances of having to restart an auric maelstrom run or even ‘waste’ it. A fresh lvl 30-40 character probably won’t have the experience to survive or play well. So people dodge those lobbies. It’s simple statistics.

This is a consequence of the mission board timers and the inability to select what the want. If the only map+mode I want to play only has a few minutes left on the board I won’t ‘waste’ my time with inexperinced players that may or my not turn it not a slog

There’s a scoreboard mod that just does that. Might wanna check out Power DI

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22

@MadMartigan TrueLevel is quite useful actually. And not in a brow-beating way.

I know when my mate and I load in to a lobby with fresh 30s, trying to do an STG level 4 or even 5, that they’re likely to fold at the first horde. It’s a lot more efficient having that xp tally showing than looking at trinkets and trying to work out how much someone has played. Arguably I’d prefer the ‘total level’ score to show across all your characters natively, but it’s the best I’ve got right now.

You can argue that I shouldn’t be able to see that info, but I’d argue that some players shouldn’t be in these lobbies as they must know they’re not close to that standard yet. They’re trying to shortcut the learning curve literally at my expense.

Other information is useful too. He’s playing vet (say), me on ogryn, and oh look - another two vets appear. We dodge those lobbies too for more variety. Again, useful insight though this time without a mod. Someone turns up with a chain axe, also a red light ( :wink: ).

Segue…

Using the scoreboard has changed my mind on many things. I don’t look at it during the game, only at the end, and then to see how well I did vs the best/next best on there.

I’ve found out loads of useful things; i.e. just because I’m shooting everything I see in a highly efficient manner, doesn’t mean that I’m top scoring for the team. That was a good early learning. The old VIa (?) recon gun; I do pitiful damage totals with it despite it being a gun you can just hold fire on. Also; I do generally equal damage on vet and zealot with totally different weapons… which is helpful in balance conversations.

There used to be a perfect position on the Mourningstar for you to go and view stats; just near the hangar. It’s now been taken over by a Commissar or something, but being able to view stats once you’re no longer in a local team chat group seems ideal to me.

3 Likes
23

Ok but, and this isn’t being facetious, if you can’t complete or enjoy auric maelstrom unless you’re with 3 turbo chads then perhaps it’s not the difficulty/condition for you?

Auric maelstrom is just about pure challenge right, so you’re finding the way to make it the absolute least challenging as possible, which I guess is fine but…why? Failing an Auric maelstrom isn’t a “waste”…it should be a very strong possiblity and expected because it’s the hardest level in the game. A failed match is just a failed match. It happens. Load another. Farming materials is not what AM should be used for either (FS should reduce rewards to the same as damnation imo).

If anyone has used that mod to complete the auric survivor then those tags have even less credibility, if that’s even possible.

QOL mods for the hub menus seem fine to me. Avoiding the pulling of teeth is fair cop. But anything that affects gameplay is a cheat code in all but name. Spidey sense is pure cheat code but I appreciate it’s ideal for deaf players…but really how many people are using it who are not deaf. Most I imagine.

If people use these mods then I’m not going to cry about it but I do think it voids their opinion on gameplay matters as they’re literally playing a different game with different parameters to vanilla players. Playing field should be level for opinions to be of value.

Out of all the shouting and moaning about everything on these forums…how do we know who is playing with cheat codes and who is not? Maybe enough people with difficulty-aiding mods moan that the game is not challenging enough and FS change it based off mod player feedback so then that changes the game to the detriment for the vast majority (non-mod players). It taints the water of opinion.

And yes some of these mods should be in the vanilla code. I blame FS for that entirely. But as long as people don’t shout their demands because they have their mods, then FS aren’t going to hear the demand nor do FA about it.

1 Like
24

No my argument is that the change that is needed in the game (e.g. complete at least 50 auric missions before maelstrom unlocks etc) will never ever happen because all the mod users are silent on the matter because they’re using mods to mitigate the issue. FS will not change anything if there is no noise about it.

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25

Then let’s campaign and shout about it to FS. All mod users (the minority) are silent though because they use the mods and don’t need to shout about it.

With the ps5 release seemingly imminent, that will increase the majority of vanilla players by an even larger margin.

26

Well, to be fair, the developers have already weighed in with a final decision on the scoreboard. Some 18 months ago admittedly, so the opinion may have shifted.

27

I for one am glad that we are not at Fatshark’s mercy to implement basic features…

I respect their decision to not implement a scoreboard. I’m happy to use a mod for it for my selfish personal gain (and hub hotkeys, and true level, and numeric UI, and spectator HUD, etc. etc. etc.). I have no respect for idiots who talk down to people, and I have no desire to make that problem my problem.

If there was a massive issue with cheaters and bots, yeah we’d probably want Fatshark to step in and take away the toys. I’ll be blunt: people getting their feelings hurt sometimes because of jackasses is not enough reason for me to want to reverse the modding paradigm we have here.

Then let’s campaign and shout about it to FS. All mod users (the minority) are silent though because they use the mods and don’t need to shout about it.

This is not true and I hope you don’t make me link the various threads that prove otherwise, I’m sure I’ve even seen you in them. You have already accused people of using binary language to the detriment of discussion, well, pot meet kettle.

I am also not really in the mood to ‘campaign and shout’ about small issues to Fatshark to be really honest. Most mods out there address an intentional design ‘feature’ that irritated someone enough to ‘fix’. Stuff like:

  • “Why do I need to load into the Mourningstar every single time I want to check a vendor? And… WALK??”
  • “How much HP / Toughness do I actually have?”
  • “My XP bar filled past 30, why am I not level 31?”

There are valid design decisions behind these choices, and if you want the vanilla experience you go for it. But I want the convenience at the cost of the original artistic vision, a vision I don’t even think is worth compromising for a minority of number-goblins and, um, extremely opinionated folk like me.

So yeah, viva la mods baby! Don’t let 'em get you down!! :mending_heart:

3 Likes
28

Then why disrupt that? Why play a different game to everyone else? Regardless, I’ve already said multiple times that I don’t see any issues with hub QOL mods. Gameplay mods in a multiplayer game on the other hand, I generally do.

I’m not sure how saying that we should put pressure on FS for implementing fairly simple changes that already exist as mods…is somehow a binary position? Sorry I’m not understanding that at all.

“Viva la mods” is the binary language I’m refering too as it suggests an all or nothing approach, whereas I want balance and fairness for all players. I’m not a console player but damn it’s unfair that their entire player base is excluded for some options that FS could simply include.

If a feature is good then it should be in the vanilla build. Mods shouldn’t even need to exist. Again I blame FS entirely for this as they should have reviewed mods and integrated the useful ones a long time ago.

I’d absolutely love to know how much HP and toughness I have. FS should put this in the game. It’s quite insane that it’s not. But if there’s a mod then I guess they can be lazy about it and screw all non mod users.

1 Like
29

There’s a difference between a auric maelstrom solo/duo run chad and a lvl 34 player that has no idea what he’s doing still.
People are fine with someone inbetween. I’ve never seen a player in the low 100s get bullied or in some way shamed.

You really don’t understand do you? Due to the way the map system works you can’t easily “load another”. If the map/modifier you want to play (i.e. monstrous specials) isn’t on rotation you frankly lost the chance to play what you want. If this is chance is ‘wasted’ by a joining a lobby with one or more inexperienced players, the reaction is understandable.

So people want their attempt to count.

Personally I don’t mind carrying a shtter lvl 30 or even some lvl 1000 malice vet player that gave it a go for a change, for few minutes until they die, quit, and someone more competent joins.
But I can understand the sentiment of people wanting to make the most out of the limited attempts they can give a challenging run. Especially when the map/modifier combination they want to play is only up for an hour max.

The toxicity that’s causing your anger isn’t due to the mods, it’s because FS’ trash map selection system created an atmosphere of urgency and FOMO when it comes to the simplest things like map selection. Some people don’t have the patience, so they use the mods to circumvent that. It’s absolutely okay to do so.

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30

I have no anger. I have an opinion, as do you. I absolutely agree with the map system needing changed. I think quite a lot should be changed but FS can just lay back and not bother if the people who most want the changes are silent due to having access to a mod. Gives FS cause to be lazy.

As for “understanding”…I understand that the map selection should change instead of people being able to snoop on other players stats that the player themselves cannot see. A lobby would be a better option, or so would stats being readily available to everyone in vanilla. And how do you know that a fresh level 30 isn’t just a new slot from a player who’s maxed 4 other archetypes to the hilt? I’m not sure a mod would show that?

Why are people against requesting features get vanilla treatment? Why is keeping them as mods benificial to the game? That bit I don’t understand.

31

No one does that though? People have been asking for a lot of the mods to be implemented since release.

The reason mods are so necessary is that a lot of those requested features will probably take years for FS to implement, if VT2 is anything to go by. Adding chat block took them what, 3 years?

2 Likes
32

YESSSSS

I agree with the OP. Hide that stuff that you initially hid anyway. Why some fool gotta see my overall level huh?

I’m really glad I’m not the only person bothered by this. Admittedly we seem to be a very quiet minority but eh, I’ll take it.

As I’ve said before, its fine if the mod only affects the user, but since these types of mods do, by dint of the fact you’re gaining information about someone else, affect others, we should have the ability to deny that information.

3 Likes
33

All mod users (the minority) are silent though because they use the mods and don’t need to shout about it.

Lost in quotation! My point is that just because people use mods doesn’t mean they’re silent. We have quite the intersection of blabbermouths and modders here, even :grin:

Well, because imo it’s better ((for me)). I modded skyrim too. Monster Hunter World might be a closer example as it’s co-op, they have the mother of all scoreboards which was a great help deciphering some arcane mechanics.

Also, the disruption you mention is only an issue when bad actors make it an issue for other people. I like to think I am free to disrupt my own experience as much as I like!

Oh, permit me my foibles… besides, if something is “suggesting” an approach then is it truly binary? Additionally, I do believe you want balance and fairness for all players as you say. Does that suggest that I do not? Anyways…

I reckon a community is healthier with a healthy mod scene, and from what I’ve seen from Darktide it’s quite good. Player agency hasn’t exactly been a priority at FS if you know what I mean, and without some sort of outlet or mitigating factor to retain players we’d all be worse off.

Mostly the mods address the gaping holes left by the developers and very select few actually give a meaningful advantage to gameplay. It’s a co-op game besides, so not to downplay the level playing field aspect but the worst case scenario is that you’d have a strong teammate.

In this timeline however…

Look, I think we actually want a lot of the same things albeit from opposite directions. However I haven’t seen a truly compelling case for an alternative to what we have today. And like it or not, that’s the basis for any discussion about mods.

Ideally I think an approved mod system + modded realm would work best. That may even come someday. Until then, this works best imo. Unfortunately some people abuse the system, and that sucks. I’m not inclined to let them ruin the fun for everyone though!

You went and made me do it!!

https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/quality-of-life-enhancements-compilation-of-ideas-for-fatshark

People are simply against waiting for FS to extract a digit and get it done. The day they’re incorporated into vanilla, mods evaporate. It’s happened to several already, even.

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34

Good reply and fair points :pray:

I’ll just remind that I’m not advocating the total banning of all mods. Far from it.

I just want FS to implement the good ones and reduce the need for them. So when we all make comments about the game we know we’re experiencing it in the same way before feedback.

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35

if you use the mod too, it wouldn’t be hidden from yourself
and you could see the mod to see other peoples level as well.

so i don’t think it breaches any privacy and honestly, the total amount of levels played on a character isn’t really “privacy”
the game stores the levels you get, it was a thing they did since vermintide 1, and 2.

2 Likes
36

in vermintide 2, it was possible to hide the loadouts you were running from other people as official feature, so your talents, equipment etc.

that i could understand. in darktide people can see your equipment etc. :smiling_imp:

37

It shows me how well i did compared to my team. It feels nice to see at the end that i was useful to my team, seeing that i killed the most disablers and specials in the match fills me with glee and improves my confidence. At the same time if i was thinking i was doing poorly in a game and can see the scoreboard and see that my stats are on the similar level as everyone else in the team puts me at ease.
Those stats are important to me and improve my experience greatly.

It also helps me see how good the build i created actually is. Thanks to the scoreboard i can see actual stats of how well the new build works instead of just “i feel like its powerful” its “i know its powerful”

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38

Sorry I maybe wasn’t very clear.

I meant why should other people be able to see my stats.

I’d love to see my own stats in game, but people should be able to block others from seeing theirs if they want imo

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39

Your own stats are worthless if you dont have anyone else to compare to.
Lets say i just did a maelstrom mission and did 400k damage killed 30 specials, disablers and ranged elites. Seems good right?

Except others on my team can have around 600k damage 50 specials and disablers and 70 ranged elites. Which means i were the weakest link and didnt do my job properly as a helbore precision sniper. As this role its ME who should always have the highest stats on specials/disablers and ranged elites.

Same thing if you play as a pure damage dealer, or a crowd control or whatever.
Without having anyone to compare to, scoreboard is just a bunch of random numbers.

At the same time, say you were new to damnation auric, and you could see your own stats but not others. You’d have no idea if you just thought you were doing a good job or if you actually were. Thanks to scoreboard a new player to a new difficulty can tell if they were pulling their weight or if they should try to find ways to improve because they werent actually good but were simply carried by much more skilled players.

You see the public scoreboard as an evil thing because you only focus on the bad side of it which is miniscule and happens rarely. Try to look at the good side of things as well.

4 Likes
40

Surely not worthless as you could compare to your previous run on similar conditions, no?

In any case I’m actually in favour of stats. I’d like to see my own at the very least. However I think people should be able to hide their stats from others if they choose, especially given console players don’t even have the option to view mod stats. It just seems fair.