AI bots are still Quite thickheaded

Is it me or has the AI regressed even more than usual? With the Outcast engineer out and bardin being taken by every person and their cat i find the one AI that usually clutch holds the whole team together (Bardin) is now missing we are trully seeing how bad the AI are at basically everything.

  • They cant defend themselves in a horde
  • They Kamikaze into specials that blow them apart (Ratlings, Globadiers)
  • They freeze when a boss is around, especially when there is a horde around
  • They cannot for the life of them REVIVE YOU WHEN YOU ARE DOWN RIGHT NEXT TO THEM.

Even with the bot improvement mod (A must when playing with bots) they are still dumb as rocks.

I would like to hope something at least gets done about this, even just a slight acknowledgement and a 'can anyone improve these bots to scale with difficulties?

I dont need god tier bots, i just need competent bots

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Not sure whether or not they’re worse than before, but they’re pretty awful in general. One day Fatshark will have to bring them up to snuff with a significant update.

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This mod hasnt been updated in ages and is completely dead last i heard.

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Yes, the bots have gotten worse since the Engineer career came out. I don’t know what’s causing it but they will just stand and not attack enemies even if you’re actively engaging in the fight.

The Bot AI Improvements mod has not been updated since August of 2019 just slightly after the Winds of Magic release.

I used it from July to October of this year and noticed that only 1 feature worked and that was to allow bots to tag elites. They did not stay close to the player and they kept preferring heavy attacks over light attacks (which are the 2 changes the mod was supposed to fix).

In other words, it hasn’t worked in a while. Something else is affecting the bot behavior.

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Feels like update after update bots get worse, at least before they had the only rediming quality that they sayed close to you, just now was duoing in against the grain, me and my friend jumped down after the barn where the monster spawn but bots stayed behind we don’t know what to do and died soon after. This problem is becoming very frustrating in this momement because i want to try the new career but probably because in my reagon not many players i have to wait around 15 minutes for just one person to join me

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Most of the sanctioned mods haven’t been updated in a long time too. However, most of them still work fine (including Bot Improvements - Combat). I’ve been using that mod ever since it was a sanctioned mod.

Not sure what you mean by “completely dead”, but on Nov. 21 (yesterday), Fatshark_Calavera said (in the mod’s comment page): “We rolled out a fix this morning that should prevent the crashing. The sanctioned status has been restored. Thank you for your patience!” (The game was recently updated to make the Bot Improvements mod still compatible with it.)

Is this something you have tested multiple times to notice (by enabling and disabling the mod’s features before starting a map?) In July-October I did multiple tests (because of the many game updates in that period). I notice that every time I disable the mod’s features, the bots will not stay closer, will not optimally use their melee attacks (noticeable on the 1h hammer/mace - bots will use heavy attacks for hordes, instead of the more optimal light attacks) and will not ping elites. (Ergo, all 3 mod features work as per my tests.)

The bots’ propensity to chase after specials with melee weapons (and not shooting them with their ranged weapons) to the ends of the map are not affected by this mod’s ‘Stay Closer’ feature. They will leave the player(s), with or without this mod to attempt to melee specials.

On what weapons did you notice this? Note that with Bot Improvements - Combat, they will use heavy attacks on hordes if there is a target among the horde that will not be damaged by light attacks, even if the heavy attack is unoptimal for hordes (e.g., Executioner Sword).

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I can confirm that they are worse than before. I use to play extensively with bots. While they were terrible before, with the right equipment they were manageable. If you didn’t equip them with higher skilled weapons and gave them a sniper type weapon, they did decent.

They are definitely far worse now. They don’t want to shoot anything. They’re aggressive in their pursuit of enemies to the point of breaking up the group and they don’t seem to want to revive because they’d rather fight.

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And aggro patrols :unamused:

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I have the same feeling, was playing the mechanic with kru smelly cheese eater, elf arrowmancer and saltz dejugulator and I noticed few things like

  • standing in front of mobs without even parrying,
  • Elf was keeping switching ranged and melee without attacking (maybe the others did the same, but I didn’t notice)
  • not sniping specials (in the past they were running against flamers, now they just stay still. Did they give in to the masochist side?)
    I didn’t try them opting out the mods.

I’ve had all 3 of these idiots stare at a flamerat for minutes without batting an eye.

I meant dead as in having ceased to function, and with that said sometimes a mod can actually survive a lot of changes to a game. But i must admit that i am surprised you find the “bot improv…” working because for me that one hasnt been working for a long time.

Sure it doesnt crash the game but post some time ago my bots just started running into firerats without shooting and going on continental adventures chasing gasrats even with the mod on. I wasnt paying attention to their attack patterns being better or worse but it´s kind of a moot point given that specials now decimate them easily again.

Not crashing the game and working perfectly as intended are different things, i am actually pretty sure the guys over at Fatshark also like the mod seeing how they sanctioned it and made efforts to keep the game compatible with it. But there is a crucial problem. Keeping the mod functioning is a two way street.

It needs Fatshark to sanction it and not do stuff that makes the game completely incompatible with it, and secondly it needs the actual mod creator to update it in accord with Fatshark updating the game.

Otherwise post some point it´s like both sides trying to solve a puzzle together but their puzzle pieces are completely different in size&shape to the point where the only similarity is the material and they cant connect.

I saw this too, also standing compleatly still close to a ladder when a teammate was under attack by a gutter runner like he was trying to remember how ladders work. Other annoying thing is bots greedly devauring any healing they find on the map even if some teammates have wounds.

The mod has only three specific bot behavior modifications as stated in its description. All bot behavior outside those three, including those issues you mentioned, are not because of the mod, but due to vanilla game bot behavior.

Issues not fixed by the mod are: pathing issues (falling off ledges, not being able to follow players or get items in certain spots), poor special handling (chasing after specials with melee weapons, and not using ranged weapons on specials), facetanking enemy attacks (mostly attacks of specials like firerats and globadier gas), poor decision making on when to use healing items, poor decision making on when to revive, among other issues.

I agree. Fatshark themselves should improve the bots so that we won’t need to install mods, and deal with incompatibilities and desanctioning. All 3 of the Bot Improvement - Combat modifications should’ve already been in the game. Bot Improvements - Impulse Control should’ve already been in the game.

Bots have always liked chasing after specials with melee weapons to the ends of the map, instead of using their ranged weapons. They will prioritize this even if someone needs reviving. They also are keen on facetanking flamerat attacks (among other enemy attacks). See various similar reports from 2018-2020 here: Bot suggestions to fix them and make them more immersive (possibly adding features) (all reports there are before the Outcast Engineer update).

Here’s a pre-Outcast Engineer update screenshot of me getting stabbed by an assassin rat while the three other bots wander off (one bot actually passed by me and ignored me):

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That’s hilarious. I’ve had a moment when my IB bot watched me get mauled by an assassin, and only attacked it when it was done killing me. He didn’t even manage to kill it though.

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Yes i know vanilla bots are crap, but lets look at one of the core things the mod is supposed to improve :

Stay Closer: Whenever enemies are nearby, the bots will stay much closer to human players, making them more reliable during hordes.

This does not work whatsoever as far as i can tell, one special anywhere and bots are instantly splitting all over. And if i am moving and a bot gets stuck fighting then it seems to be a 50/50 if the other two bots are going there or to me.

If there are no specials? I have yet to encounter a horde without specials since i started legend and even moreso since i went into cata…additionally i am not entirely sure the ping thing is working either.

The melee one i am just truly ignorant about.

To be honest i think ideally fatshark would make a point of actually adopting some mods straight into the game and taking over responsibility for them, such as the bot improve mods, the UI expansion, scoreboard tweaks and such.

They all do nothing but offer general improvements that make things better, and if uncertain they can just offer options about disabling those for i mean heck, the mods themselves already have that.

Yes, specials are an exemption to ‘Stay Closer’. Once a bot ‘locks on’ to a special in an attempt to melee it, it will override other behavior, with or without Bot Improvements - Combat installed (see screenshot I’ve posted above - where they will prioritize chasing far specials over helping someone near them getting stabbed by a gutter runner). This issue also exists in Vermintide 1. You have to be proactive on dealing with specials if playing with bots.

The Bot Improvements mod for Vermintide 1 can disable that chasing instinct for specials, but there is no equivalent sanctioned mod with that functionality for Vermintide 2.

‘Stay Closer’ is more for bots staying closer while fighting hordes. In the Bot Improvements mod for Vermintide 1, that setting was named, ‘Bots Stay Closer During Hordes. If you disable that option they will stay farther while fighting hordes, making the team less effective at fighting the horde.

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I don’t use any mods so I’m used to living with bots of generic stupidity.
The last patch have indeed made them a bit more dumber - they have stopped recognising grab item command thus making it impossible to have 2 grims in a 1 players run and making 1 grim 3 tomes run more complicated as they will not pickup tomes if they have healing (and shooting them to use that healing takes time and ammo) and also you commit to not using pots as you’ll be carrying the grim.
All in all I welcome the difficulty spike, but I’d rather have the pickup command back.

P.S. the bots in the last couple of games have taken a special penchant for standing in gas and ratgunner’s volley, not a fan.

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This is too important topic to leave it behind.

Everything that has been said here is true.

Also, based on my experience, I gave up on mod “bot improvement - combat” for a long time, I feel like it does more harm than good. Nevertheless - I really respect all attempts to improve solo play.

It’s true again, even more - now mod’s functions from “Chat Block” and “Mission timer” have already been added to the game. The bots improvement functions should be the same.

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