Veteran has the Camo Expert Feat, which works great. It reduces Aggro. At 4 and 5 this is really helpful, because even a tiny Horde-Enemy can kill me in two hits.
But there is no “Tank” for the other Side of the Coin.
Ogryn has a big Shield, regenerates a lot of Toughness, and has a huge Healthpool. But no Feat to Taunt or draw Attention.
Towering Presence could be reworked here. Instead of giving a Coherency, it could increase the chance that Enemies target Ogryn. That way Ogryn can act as a dedicated Tank of the Group.
EDIT:
Also, due to this “missing Feature”, Ogryn feels a bit left out. Not as strong in Melee as Zealot or even Veteran. This might be also due to the missing Weapons we saw.
No good ranged Weapons to compete with Veteran.
No good CC to compete with Zealot or Psyker.
And no Ability to Tank either, even though his most unique Weapon is a Shield.
Well, that would be good, if every Ogryn was always using a shield.
Otherwise you would soak up the dmg like a sponge an die in seconds due to the lack of dodge range and it’s huge hitbox.
I think atm, atleast if the Ogryn isn’t using a shield, the zealot is a way better tank and frontliner.
Eventhough Ogryn has more health and better toughness recovery from the start.
I think it would be nice making the taunting of the enemies an option if the talent tree gets a rework to make the ogryn more capable of tanking even without the shield.
Ogryn is Tank, in tide game tank means CC supporter. Ironbreaker in Vermintide 2 has Taunt ult, but most of the time, you can’t use it, you should reserve it for important moment. And there’s another tank which is Footknight, Footknight has no taunt, still very strong CC bonus with damage reduction.
Ogryn is more like Footknight with almost same ult.
his +25% stagger passive makes him stagger most of enemy with any weapon when he’s pushing. His ranged weapon Rumbler is the best cc machine in this game. It’s better than Psyker surge staff. Still surge staff has some niche.
Shield isn’t must-have item even in Damnation difficulty by the way.
I think your right about range fire killing you to easily.
I play zealot and I always rush into the crowds of range units because they are the real danger to me and the safest place is where I’m not getting shot and that’s right next to them forcing them to pull melee.
Give ogyrn a perk that’s a aura that forces range units to draw melee weapons and rush at the closes team member (hopefully you) from 2 to 3 times the normal distance.
not every Veteran uses Camo Expert either, some use Bolter and play aggressively, some play Laser and like a Sniper.
If Ogryn uses a Shield or overall defensively, such a Feat would benefit here the same way it does for Veteran.
It could be bound to a condition like “When blocking, you are more likely to get attacked by enemies”.
Well, you really cant compare Darkite to Vermintide that much in this regard. Darktide has a much higher focus on ranged, where a CC Tank plays extremely different. You should see how many Gunners you can encounter in a Difficulty 4 or 5 Mission. Good luck getting close to CC them.
Of course it is not. Its still a Playstyle that should be supported in some way.
Ogryn with the Bully Club feels a lot like Vermintide’s Foot Knight with a Mace or 2-H Hammer. Crowd Control for days, all the trash is constantly on the floor or getting ragdolled around, and charged heavy headbonks deal with bigger melee threats. You just have to play more carefully in areas with loads of ranged mobs and not just charge in. Keep the poxwalkers and stuff off your ranged teammates so they can get rid of the enemy shooters then help the zealot mop up what’s left.
And this is not Vermintide.
Show me where we can encounter 20 Gunners in Vermintide.
Show me where you take cover and exchange hundres of Shots with them in Vermintide.
It’s not Vermintide, but the Ogryn has a lot of similarities with the Foot Knight from that game, who was considered a melee tank. Not in the way of being able to take all the hits (that was Ironbreaker’s thing), but through controlling threats and limiting damage to the team, so the comparisons will keep happening. I’m still levelling my Ogryn, so my perspective comes from Malice difficulty, but taking a similar approach to playing him as I did Foot Knight is definitely working.
I’ve tried the Shield for a more tanky approach. Versus ranged mobs, standing somewhere to get their attention and planting the shield with the weapon special lets you just sit there and take all the hits. That should give your team more breathing room to kill the things that are trying to kill you. It doesn’t feel like the most effective way of playing the Skullbreaker, but there’s definitely design space for a future Ogryn class that’s more focused on that style of gameplay.
Ogryn is fine. You can tank perfectly fine by adjusting your positioning as well. Your team also needs to work with you rather than just pressing an “I tank now” button like ironbreaker or having a feat that auto draws aggro. The coherency increase works with this already by allowing you to move forward/towards enemies more so they’re increasingly likely to aggro to you.
I totally disagree that ogryn can’t tank, they’re easily kings of melee tanking while zealots are kings of ranged tanking.
Also:
No good CC to compete with Zealot or Psyker.
u w0t. Have you even tried shoving, pretty much any of his weapon specials, or the two grenade launchers?
Oh, of course I saw how many gunners and shooters overall map in Damnation difficulty, I succeed 7 Damnation runs with random people these 2 days.
There’s a lot of difficulty going on if you do exactly same thing in this new game, of course, but role of CC tank isn’t different that much, which is stagger elites + horde. Different things are you and your team should clear ranged first before enter next room, your team need to place at cover spot for ranged spawn when solving event (or go ranged spawn place and kill them when they appeared.), your range guys are more busier than VT2, since he need to kill most of shooter.
And you have Rumbler, which is ranged CC weapon. Basically Ogryn stays with your team, and shoot Rumbler to shooter group, make your Zealot job easier which is range CC (aggro ranged by charging). Of course you should charge them sometimes. But mainly, you should defend your Psykers or Sharp shooter by using your melee weapon and Rumbler.
Rumbler has huge blast radius, and can knockdown many elites + horde for your team. Major disadvantage is it’s hard to protect your allies if you didn’t calculate well when Ragers are charging because of delayed detonate, but except that, Ogryn got the best CC for your team. Surge staff is more powerful in this case, but it has limited number of stunlock and chain lightning is quite random.
If you have lightning Psyker in your team, you can easily stagger, knockdown charging Ragers without thinking.
Sword that blocks all projectiles/attacks and uses peril instead of stamina (with enough block efficiency it’s highly unlikely for mobs to break it through the stamina/peril).
Walk into a room and enjoy grabbing all that gunfire keeping your team safe, then slide and whip out those instant surge attacks.
Its a matter of choice.
Why do people use a sharpshooter to melee? why do people use a Zealot with a Bolter and not a Flamer? Because it is fun and there is more than one way to play.
Ogryn has a Shield, Ogryn can Tank. Easy as that. There is no “one role” for each Class.
Flamestaff is insanely powerful too.
Of course it works fine as it is now. Just as it works fine to avoid damage when you know how to play without Camo Expert. But having a way to do it even better could be fun.
To be honest, i feel that the Ogryn Coherency is the worst of all…
Zealot: All allies within Coherency take less Toughness damage. GREAT
Veteran: Regenerate Ammo on Elite kills. Situational, but still GOOD
Psyker: Deal more Damage to Elites. GREAT
Ogryn: Deal more Damage with heavy Melee.
“But im a Veteran, i shoot stuff!”
“Im a Psyker, i use my Staff!”
“Im a Zealot, i can use Melee…”
“Me Ogryn! Me swing Club! Do have many Feats for Heavy Melee.”
So…Ogryn is the only one who REALLY benefits from Ogryns Aura…
Not much choice to make really. The Ogryn has a huge hitbox, can’t hide anywhere, blocks team from shooting in narrow spaces. Shield only blocks projectiles from the front, not the side or back.
Psyker has a small hitbox, can hide everywhere, doesn’t block the team from shooting in narrow spaces and can block projectiles from front, back and sides.
Saying there’s no “one role” is blatantly false.
Veterans are designed for killing specials, elites and ranged units. That is what their entire kit revolves around.
Ogryns are designed to be the tanks, but their size actively prevents the team from dealing with threats in front of the Ogryn and their shield only blocks frontal attacks.
The Zealot is designed to be a melee damage dealer and horde control, it’s what its entire kit revolves around and they do so frightningly effective.
The Psyker WAS designed to deal with elites, but was nerfed so much that it can no longer fulfill that role - the Veteran does it instead, HOWEVER, the Psyker weapons and kit allows it to fulfill: CC and Tank role much better than any other class - even the classes that were supposed to be tank role.
Heck the Psyker is even better at reviving and rescuing as they cannot be interrupted and do not take damage when build right (and all Psykers build with that talent). An Ogryn, which is specifically designed for this, gets shot to pieces.
So eh… Ogryn’s are generally just a hinderance to your team especially on Damnation where it is crucial to be able to kill stuff INFRONT of the tank in narrow spaces and that annoys me, because I do like Ogryns and whipping out that shield, but it doesn’t help much when my Psyker can just waltz into gun fire without a care in the world.
All of which focus on the exact same thing: Killing Elites, Specials and Ranged before they are a nuisance to your team.
Fact is that all have a role and fullfill that role, regardless of their playstyle.
Except for the Ogryn and Psyker. They don’t. The Psyker has other roles that it enables, but wasn’t the intention and the Ogryn is just flat out, outclassed by a role that wasn’t meant to do what it can whilst being a hinderance to its team the minute there’s tight spaces - which is quite a lot.
I’d dig a useful Ogryn, but currently a Psyker fills the role of tanking and reviving better than anything the Ogryn will get access to.
If the Ogryn was made as it is in the lore, they would be the brutes that charges in, are hard to kill and deadly in melee, but… you only got the charge in and deadly, not hard to kill.
im fine with oggie getting love but i dont think we should be sticking class’s in specific box’s if we for eg make ogres the tank
how do you balance it so the tank has value and is wanted but isnt nescessary? thats a mine field
What if the ogre didnt want to be that tank? if tanking is making everyone else’s life easier how happy /willing is a group going to be if thier ogre isnt tankminded?
Well, then they dont select the Feat and choose one of the other two instead.
You are right there. Psyker can play multiple roles, not just playstyles. Even Anti-Armor Sniper should be possible since Psyker has access to the Plasma-Staff
But you know what’s a hoot? Play a flimsy psyker on a team with two, three vets all with camo equipped. You learn to be very careful about enemy laser squads.