Don’t worry, happens. Anyway is a “forcing” to use kruber’s bow as sniper… this is Kery’s style.
Huntsman should lack of versatility (in fact WS has regen hp/bullets and panic button super) but he should bodyshot.
But all this is useless, if Pyro and BH 100% outperform them.
Correct. It is worth keeping in mind vs. Infantry will also help you in melee combat vs. both Skaven and random mobs, rather than just Chaos mobs. if that’s important to you. vs. Chaos will also only help you vs. the Stormfiend and Abomination.
~16.5% power vs. Skaven AND armoured will allow you to 1 shot Skaven armoured specials (Ratling Gunner and Warpfire thrower) to the body (36 damage), and is achievable with using only 2 buff slots. I’d aim for slightly higher just to be sure. This will not allow you to 1 shot Stormvermin, however. You need to use at least 3 buff slots for it (>20% power vs.). Hope this helped.
Thanks a lot, very helpful and very expert.
Anyway, also with perfect bonus (20% skaven 10% armoured OR 10% skaven 20% armoured + 10% chaos OR infantry in their best combination) I still can’t bodyshot nobody else specials/elites?
I don’t know if this has been mentioned elsewhere, but what mobs constitute as infantry exactly?
No. Globadiers, Leeches, and Blightstormers cannot be bodyshot without a nearly 40% power bonus, meaning all four bonuses spec entirely towards killing them. Packmasters are a different damage type (Monster, same as bosses), and thus are much more difficult to test damage against. In my experience, however, it takes 2 bodyshots to kill them.
If it’s any consolation, no other non-shotgun weapon (these include the repeater pistol shotgun blast) can kill them in 1 hit to the body without the same bonuses either, including the handgun and the triple shot on both volley crossbows. Most need 3. The exception to this is Bounty Hunter, who, with a crit and the right weapons, can easily exceed these breakpoints. He is unique in this, however; everyone else must aim for the head. On Champion, of course, many weapons do bodyshot these specials. I assume this was an intentional choice by the developers when designing the damage thresholds for Legend.
Anything on this spreadsheet with an “Armor cat” of 1. This includes:
So yeah, pretty much anything you could constitute as a mob.
I repeat myself: thanks a lot, very helpful <3
Anyway, in this way, he probably has good trade with WS… but I still think that is very sad the ocean between Huntsman/WS and Pyro/BH. We need some balance.
P.s: I totally forgot this question: huntsman is only bow. I would like some buff to the others ranged weapons:
Great info, thank you for this, made Hunstman fun again. That being said, can’t Sienna get the same one-shot body-shot on specials/armored with the same charm/beamstaff rolls? Looking at the dmg table, the damage of the beamstaff snipe is .25 dmg less than the charged longbow shot. ( https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mptGARoAt9oKGG5Cdn6dQiUJD4hETIsWRg3yme13bSQ/edit#gid=1271422591 ) Unless I’ve misread. Thanks!
I think Pyro can bodyshot everything: L clik for 2/3 seconds + R click it’s enough.
I one shot SV, flame/gatling/hook/gutter rat. up your gear.
You can’t bodyshot packmaster and also the others… only thr others, yes, with right bonus we can do it… but we have to re-roll four nearly perfect bonus against vs X (and so we can’t use precious bonus like crit or damage against bosses) to bodyshot just SW, flame, gatling and gutter… while, careers like BH and Pyro, can bodyshot ALL (and they have infinite bullets, and they are more versatile…).
After posting that i realized i’ve been running champion with him. I tested in legend and couldn’t 1 shot packmaster. If power vs infantry works for them then i’m missing 10%. Otherwise you can’t do it on a non-crit bodyshot. Unless there’s a tag besides skaven that works, shrug.
Yes, against packmaster you need monster bonus, but:
I don’t want an overpowered career… but it’s ridicolous if another careers like BH and Pyro can bodyshot everything.
well you can turn the argument around “it’s ridiculous that an IB is the only class that can sit and tank an entire chaos patrol for 15 seconds without taking damage”
a good huntsman will kill most specials before sienna has time to charge up her beam, and BH can’t engage distant targets without spamming light attacks. if a group of 5 SV start charging your team from a distance, a huntsman will decimate them faster than a sienna can.
there’s plenty of situations where a huntman can outperform a sienna or a BH in, and there’s other situations where it’s the reverse. makes for variety in the game!
so, to bodyshot it, you need at least 20%… but, in this way, you can not bodyshot the other specials…
Get about 25% power vs skaven/armored so you oneshot SVs (to torso ofc). In addition you oneshot packmasters. In fact the only specials you now dont oneshot are globadiers and chaos sorcerers, and you didnt oneshot chaos sorcerers before the patch either without a headshot.
Whats the issue?
I don’t want to get to off topic from Huntsman, but since there’s been discussion about the beam staff in here, hopefully this will still contribute to the conversation. To answer your question, as far as I can tell you did not misread the spreadsheet. However, something about those numbers seemed off from my experience in the game, so I decided to check them out.
Turns out, the beam staff’s “charged beam” does more damage based on how long you’ve been attacking the enemy, ramping up in damage at the same rate (more damage per tick), but capping at a slightly lower point (4 ticks instead of 5), as the regular beam. The values on the spreadsheet give the maximum damage after 4 ticks, but only accurate to Unchained, as both Pyromancer and Battle Wizard passively receive a further 10% buff to ranged weapon damage. This means instead of doing 39.5 damage to unarmoured as the spreadsheet suggests, you do (39.5 * 1.1) = 43.25 damage as these classes.
This, however, also requires you to keep your beam on the same target for ~1.5 seconds before right clicking to do the blast. You also do the damage from having your beam on the target for those 1.5 seconds, which considering they are mandatory to get higher damage on the blast, should be calculated into the damage total. Failure to track your target with the beam for even the smallest of instances will reset this damage boost, however, and you cannot drag this boost over to a new enemy. Each time you swap targets you start again from 0 ticks.
Damage vs. Unarmoured/Infantry
Damage vs. Armoured
Hopefully that’s legible for all of you. It’s worth noting it takes about the same amount of time to do 2 instant blasts as it does to wait 4 ticks and the blast (for a maximum damage blast). 2 instant blasts also seem to do about the same total damage as waiting 4 ticks to blast, and generate about the same amount of heat. I’ll let someone else figure out the exact specifics.
The beam staff is already a pretty efficient weapon compared to the Empire Longbow, though. It’s much easier to switch to and from, it affords full freedom of movement while attacking, and it’s rate of fire is much higher. Thus, optimizing it sees a much smaller gain than optimizing the Empire Longbow. Regardless, there are some interesting breakpoints you can reach, but I assume what’s important to one person may not be important to the next. There’s many ways to play the staff, and a certain level of proficiency needed to take advantage of the optimal timings to reach most breakpoints. Also, the crit rate on the staff is through the roof, especially with Pyromancer, so these optimizations matter much less often than on most other weapons.
However, here’s a quick and dirty build, for use with Pyromancer, as an example:
(these are based on rough estimates for damage numbers, not properly calculated or tested in game)
Beam Staff (+5% Crit Chance, +10% vs. Infantry)
Charm (+10% vs. Infantry, +10% vs. Armoured)
This will allow you to kill both Chaos Sorcerers and a Globadier with two 1 tick body shots (it’s almost impossible not to get at least 1 tick of damage), as well as reducing the time to kill Skaven Armoured specials (but not stormvermin) to a 3 tick body shot from a 4 tick, which should be faster than two instant bursts. It will also allow you to kill a Chaos Mauler in two 4 tick body shots. Unlike the Empire Longbow, the beam staff does have somewhat significant damage falloff with range, so numbers close to breakpoints have a chance not to make them at longer ranges. I’m sure there’s a more optimal setup out there, so feel free to play around with numbers.
If nothing else, hopefully this post highlighted the importance of optimizing traits for some weapons vs. others. It should also give people a better idea as to how the beam staff’s beam mechanics work.
Yes, in fact we also need some balance to melee meta… but this another story.
Sorry, but my opinion is so far from this… Pyro can melt every enemies at every range (shielded SV included).
About BH, I can agree, in fact I have said that in the first post… but maps aren’t so big, it’s a rare event. As BH, I kill 98% of specials without range problem. I think that BH’s advantages are too much more in comparison to BH’s disadvantages.
The issue exists also before 1.0.5… as I have said, Pyro and BH can kill everything (crowd, specials, bosses) at every range, with infinite bullets… while, WS and huntsman, can’t do it.
But, before this patch, huntsman could bodyshot (except Mauler, Stormer, Leech and CW) without perks… so we could make some juicy build, like full damage to bosses or crit/power build (and so to give a sense to some talents)… now we need four nearly perfect bonus only to bodyshot some special.
now we need four nearly perfect bonus only to bodyshot some special.
No, you need 25% power vs skaven/armored, for example 9% power vs skaven + 4% crit on longbow and 8% power vs skaven and 8% power vs armored on charm. Thats it. You bodyshot all the specials you bodyshot before the patch with this loadout, except globadiers which required around 7% power vs skaven in that patch as well.
like full damage to bosses or crit/power build (and so to give a sense to some talents)
At the moment a Huntsman with tripot trinket is still the number 1 boss DPS. He doesnt need those extra traits to be a juicy boss killer.
And please, dont compare Waystalker and Huntsman to Pyro and BH. The former are two very balanced careers at the moment who dont trivialize the game, while the latter (if we assume beam staff and volley crossbow) break the game completely and are the strongest careers in the entire game with those weapons. Its 100% a good thing that WS and Huntsman are not on the same level.
As Positron says, best build should be:
This should let you to reach some breakpoints agaist Mauler, Leech and Stormer… like to kill them with two bodyshot with “mid charge”… so nearly perfect bonus.
Yes, maybe huntsman is the first boss killer (even I have my doubt, as BH and Pyro full crit power and vs monster)… but only if he hits head’s boss. It isn’t always possible.
But, anyway, now I have understood that we are agree:
while the latter (if we assume beam staff and volley crossbow) break the game completely and are the strongest careers in the entire game with those weapons.
I’m saying just this thing… there is too much difference between huntsman + WS and Pyro + BH… I ask some balance in order to resolve this. I would to prefer some buff to hunts/WS… but this is only my opinion and it is secondary… as I have said, first thing should be resolve this huge difference.
I think he got hit hard by the fact that the ‘bonus power against -’, don’t actually bring his bow above certain thresholds on Legend now after the power nerf. This applies to a lot of others as well, but Kruber’s weapons fire so slowly, that these thresholds were very important to him.
Maybe I haven’t tried enough, but the max I was able to roll was +20% against SV and it still doesn’t one shot them anymore, and I’ve lost enough of my sanity and dust to try to roll more.