i was take a lot ff lately, it's not that bad mostcase,but when a elf with hagbane shot at u,few shot dot half health is no joke(or a bh with crossbow,1bless shot 20%health gone.)
now im not saying remove ff, but how about make ff backfire. i mean ,it’s a coop game ,if i make a mistake shot at my mate,i should be the one pay for my mistake right?
and tk is a thing in my part of town, few game ruined just cuz 2 ppl decide shot crap out eachother after been ff alot. ppl just more aggression here. backfire ff can aslo stop all that tk action.(yes i know votekick those ppl,but game is ruined,time is wasted,and me sad sad )
It’s a co-op game, as you said. That means partially that everyone pays for everyone’s mistakes. If a melee character gets FFd with Blunderbuss or Blessed shot, he can’t take as many hits and has to be careful. Some passives can be drained by minor FF hits, Gromril Armor as likely the most significant, so the target is not able to eat a significant hit. All of this takes away from their ability to protect you as a ranged attacker. And if another ranged gets hit, their aim is shot for a second or two, meaning that much time of total ineffectiveness, leaving more for you to do. If the hit is by Hagbane (or other DoT), the aim is destroyed for several seconds. Hitting others with friendly fire affects the hitter too, if only indirectly.
Also, I can’t really figure out that much that could be added sensibly to punish (or attract the attention of) the attacker. Voicelines to say “sorry”? Shots being blocked? The former wouldn’t likely do anything, especially for the people who don’t want to learn; the latter would remove some versatility, preventing the few situations where it’s useful to shoot through your friend. Anything else, I think, would just be weird, and quite likely to break the willing suspension of disbelief (or immersion).
There could be a good idea to make friendly fire harm you, but that’d be such a drastic change that it won’t work. It’d be completely illogical for anyone who’s played for any length of time. I’d probably prefer if that were the case, but you gotta go back to about 2014 and pitch the idea to past-Fatshark, before they became shartfart.
I like how everyone always blames the elf with the hagbane. But yea, to be fair, most elf players are atrocious, I get so annoyed when I play another character and see someone using the elf.
My experience with FF is normally a beef with the fireball mage. They are the worst FF players in the game. Looked at end game stats with the mod on for FF, had fireball mages doing 300-600 FF in the course of a game. Madness.
The Dwarf 2h axe has a little screenshake when you’re rampaging through. I’d like to see a screenshake for the person committing the FF, so it gives the message they need to actually think about what they’re doing. Interrupting their shots would be cool too, in the same manner as getting hit while aiming(although a bit less dramatic probably). Problem is some swiftbow elves would be like some demented idiot spamming FF and then moaning that their reticule is broken and they’ve got motion sickness.
Im using fireball on unchained and last game i got 47 ff and felt sry about that, i thought i was careful. (true numbers, i was host) 300-600 ff sounds nuts. such guys should be kicked asap.
Yikes. I’m the most ff-happy using Waystalker with Swift Bow, and I’ve gotten ~150 at worst (and that was the first game on her on a bad day), usually “only” 40-60, and even that feels like a lot.
AoE weapons (Hagbane, Fireball, to a lesser extent Conflag, Blunderbuss and Grudgeraker) are in general hard to avoid all ff with, and if a bad accident happens with the shotguns and you get a full load into your back, it hurts. Really the worst thing about Fireball and Hagbane is the DoT, though, as every tick distracts and if you’re shooting too (not really that rare) ruins your aim.
In general, I think the best way to learn the hazards of ff is to be the target in a tight situation a few times. Not on purpose, not as revenge or otherwise after the fact, but somehow notice how badly it affects the target and through that, the whole group. The Scoreboard Tweaks can help, and an additional indicator (both visual and aural) to the shooter could also help people notice when they actually hit someone, but the change has to start with the player.
The earlier debates about ff (especially before its damage nerf) indicate that both sides tend to blame the other. Targets blame the shooters for not aiming well, the shooters blame the target for moving in front of them. I have a strong suspicion that adding a significant penalty to the shooter would start the blame game again, and probably cause even worse revenge cycles than currently. So yeah, an indicator of some sort (visually, stronger than target reticule changing color or aurally, as the character saying “sorry”) could help a bit, but more than that would start wars.
I would actually very much prefer the “realism” like option to get full or at least half of damage from friendlies. At this point, FF is merely annoying, and every serious team action game should have real damage to teammates. Because you freakin’ need to watch where you shoot. Period.
Would probably help with all the “ranged meta” thing: if a particular elf (won’t name names here) shoots down her teammates during the first couple of minutes, she goes down fast herself. Ruined run, but oh well - maybe a small lesson as well.
The more you nerf FF the lazier people become with it.
Honestly, I think a scoreboard entry for friendly fire would be a good first step. There already are plenty of voice callouts for friendly fire (last game, I heard plenty of “sienna, why is my skin scorched?” lines), but I think a lot of people think that friendly fire damage is so minimal that you can ignore it. Showing them that they actually did ~200 damage to their teammates would probably help them wake up.
Also, I really don’t get why people single out elf for ff. Hagbane dots are actually around 1 damage in total. If they are constantly firing into melee, that will add up eventually, but a couple of arrows here and there (or hagbane spam into a boss) really doesn’t hurt that much. The view kick is worse than anything else. Compare this to most other weapons knocking off 10 hp a pop, it really isn’t that big of a deal.
Well there you have it. Some people actually play like that. Add the lamest disgusting homing ult to that, and you have a recipe for hatred. All that applies to Sienna too, but Sienna herself is not that irritating.
In the point screen the friendly fire damage which could have done (if friendly fire would do full damage) should be subtracted from the afflicted damage.
Sounds to me like the most efficient way to change some minds
“Friendly dakka means less dakka on stat screen. Less dakka on stat screen hurts mah feelin’s!”
i’m quite sure the FF from hagbane was reduced quite heavily no?
but FF is the reason why i dislike running hagbane. i can’t weave shots in between teammates while they’re holding up a horde, and that really irks me out. also, hagbane FF totally screws up aim for your companions for a very long time, i know how irritating it is on ranged classes at least.
Before we talk about making friendly fire reflect, maybe we should have the bots prioritise books over healing items. Right now, the only way to get them to pick up a book if they’re carrying a healing item is to shoot them until they use it and free up the book slot.
Also, as someone who plays Sienna a lot and actively avoids FFing the team, I don’t really think it’s fair to be punished every time some braindead elf runs directly in front of me while I’m fireballing something. This is how the vast majority of my FF happens.
Lowering dmg from FF was such a poor choice by devs. The only thing it caused was more FF to everyone (not FF dmg though). They should change it back and let ppl take full responsibility for their ranged attacks.
Even on Champion, many ff attacks still hurt a lot, and on Legend, can easily down a character (especially with both Grimoires). If you’ve ever gotten a full load from Blunderbuss or BH’s Blessed Shot to the back (not to mention if BH screws up royally and fires a blessed Locked and Loaded at you), you’ll know how badly it can damage you - even on the current ff damage levels. The original damage levels (0.25 on Champ, 0.5 on Legend) were too much as accidents still happen, sometimes (rare as it is) firing through your friend is still the better option, and the target is the one who suffers directly (and more) and is rarely in the position to even attempt an evasion. So I think reducing the ff damage was the right decision, even if I originally thought that they might’ve overdone it a bit again. (I would’ve left both damages at 0.05 higher from the current, at .15 and .3, partially to keep the original relation between them at double on Legend, but I don’t think that’s a significant enough difference to warrant another change).
I don’t like if you push the responsibility to the person who gets hit.
A melee doesn’t know if he enters a line of fire.
Sure, there are enough Situations where you can expect it like at narrow places. There you can expect the ranged hero to fire directly into it and you position yourself on the sides.
But then there are moments like these:
In front of you is a Kruber with his blunderbuss. Both of you are moving towards the enemy. Kruber suddenly stops, you clip into him (and the game thinks you are blocking the line of fire), Kruber shoots and you get a whole load of a blunderbuss. Ouch. Whose fault was it?
Friendly fire damage has to fit every case: suicidal heroes jumping into line of fire, careless ranged shooting into backs, simple accidents and moments i like to call “It is for the greater good” (I shoot through you to kill that special, on purpose. Sorry)
A game can’t make a difference between them.
It doesn’t have to - ranged projectile should act as realistic as possible - if a sharp stick or a led ball is flying forward at great speed, you expect it to hurt whatever is in its way. Not you, not your chest progress or any such nonsense. This is intuitive behaviour.
All the game has to do is to prevent mobs and chars from clipping through one another - it would benefit everyone in more than just the FF cases you mentioned - countless times I saw mobs occupying the exact same volume of space hitting me at different times without any real possibility to anticipate the hits. This is counter-intuitive.
