While there’s lots of good arguments regarding the mod in question, I feel this example doesn’t work well. If you delete all the enemies, there’s nothing to play anymore. A mod highlighting enemies through walls still requires the player to respond and engage them, they still have to play the game, just with more tactical information than they would otherwise (and if they’re bad, or even just mediocre, the extra info isn’t doing much to enhance their play, I don’t think anyone seriously believes a wallhack is going to let a Malice or Heresy player hang in Auric for example). Deleting all the enemies means there’s nothing to play, just environments to wander through.
The big issue here fundamentally is that the race organizers (Fatshark) aren’t promising “good and clean sport”, they’re promising an “experience”, in which difficulty is only one of many factors, and not necessarily even the primary one. It also hasn’t helped that the game has essentially been an unfinished work in progress for most of its life with significant fundamental elements taking years post-launch to conceptualize, develop, and deploy, adding yet more awkwardness to these discussions.
Ultimately the race organizers are the only ones who can determine what cheating is or isn’t in a meaningful way, and to date they have been, and still appear to be, cool with many things people find objectionable on “good and clean sport” grounds. We’ll see what happens going forward and if that changes, but looking at the game as a product, its history over the last 3 years and multiple platform launches, the existing mod policies, and Fatshark’s actions to date, they seem pretty cool with people juicing to some extent to get better relay times if that’s what scratches their itch. Even with Julia’s post here, all we’ve gotten is “it’s on the radar and we’re looking at an internal solution”, without taking any immediate action or publicly making any changes to the larger mod policy or commenting on any of an array of other mods that also enhance tactical awareness. This suggests Fatshark is only interested in slight code tweaks and responding to specific issues that create community drama, as opposed to fundamentally and inherently viewing all such things as outright cheats.
And my “delete all button” still requires the player to press the button for anything to happen.
Much in the same way that someone with the mod in question can engage and remove threats before someone without said mod can.
Just overexaggerated to get a point across.
I mean walking simulators are considered a genre of games and besides there’s still objectives and waiting timers to complete (said very tongue in cheek).
By and large I agree.
The best option for Fatshark at least in my view is to disincentivize the usage of mods, not through shaming (We can let the playerbase do that).
But by slowly removing the desire/needs for modding, by incorporating some mods wholley or in parts.
Which would also be a boon for the console players.
Even bad “Ai” can explain to you why this is a garbage take, consult it for the most basic of explanations any reasonably well-adjusted 10-year-old can come up with too.
is most likely used with others of such category in tandem.
so crappy player or mediocre I see plenty of youtube vids with more ui than visible space, health bars n all.
my 250mg testosterone once a week didn’t get me on a stage.
15 different meds stacked over several months though and a pro show is getting mighty realistic.
now the difference there is “gear” is expected and the standard while the array of substances is widely known.
here some new mods pop out every now and then possibly stacking several unwanted traits for easier cheating
so while one mod isn’t the end of a doable competition for best performance, they’re hardly isolated and the garbage that stoops to such methods usually go fully “rat-mode”
see bf6 cheating with external devices or whole “gaming cultures” trying to rename their behavior with “improvement or enhancement software”
Oh heck no. You want to make things worse? As in WoW-level Decursive-to-raid bad? Give the players control over the mod approval process. Especially that “select” group of “testers” who are responsible for “content” like Havoc. Far too many players, and especially the loud ones with a personal harem, are horrible at being objective. And determining which mods cross the line into cheat territory requires being very objective.
The only way I can see a sanctioning process working is for Fatshark swallowing its hubris and investing in hiring competent staff for the job. Then create real documentation about what is and is not acceptable, along with all the processes for making changing, appeals, monintoring, etc.
This from the company so lazy and cheap that their idea of a great money-maker is to reskin an old item and sell it as new.
Add to that 2 very serious game-breaking exploits in BF6 (PvP) and a 3rd near-one, and all the same BS excuses you find from the cheat defenders there being used in-game and on forums to justify their use. These exploits have been going on for what, 2 weeks now and Dice didn’t hotfix them?
Next time FS gets flak for something remember that I guess, and Dice HAS the ability to disable certain things like gadgets server-side.
The external HW device was just the cherry on top, at least Dice addressed that.
Some people love their cheats, and mostly the younger crowd has become so apathetic and docile that they are too sheepish to call them out while they’re actively being hurt by them, be it in PvP or PvE.
Their ego is directly tied to their mod use, and their harem strokes it constantly.
“Look how great I am”, “World First !111!!!” etc. while using every cheaty mod out there but it’s totally just QoL or accessibility or really FS’s fault because that one time in a match a trapper may or may not have made a sound and totally might have gotten someone netted and maybe a teammate would not have freed them in time.
If I wanted to show off how good I was at a game, I sure as grut wouldn’t be using all the crutch cheaty mods and pat myself on the back for my performance.
I get a notification regardless and I’m curious/hopeful,
that for ONCE you might say anything constructive.
Since you gave me nothing to discuss,
just another of your rude remarks,
I had nothing to say to you, but wonder:
Why do you even bother >>>?<<<
You made it very clear,
that everything you said (in about 600+ post, ages ago)
is just “FACTS”, which you refuse to share
and no discussion is needed.
You did it just again, when you replied to Roibr.
You quote one sentence, ignoring the rest of the post
You said “Even “Ai” can explain to you why this is a garbage take,
consult it for the most basic of explanations
any reasonably well-adjusted 10-year-old can come up with too.”
Which is just an insult and no basis for a discussion,
because you made NO argument.
You are just going around insulting people now.
You are not discussing this.
You seem to be bitter and that’s sad.
Me hoping against hope that you would argue with us is also sad.
I guess I’m a fool and should finally give up.
Because it’s such an idiotic statement that it didn’t warrant a reply, like oh so many made by others, it’s either bait, JAQing, nonsense or all. Even stupid Ai would have provided the response.
I can definitely understand this argument, though with the current mod rules and the existing array of mods, I’m not sure there’s any number or combo of mods you can throw together that’s going to make a Heresy level player into an Auric competitor, nor get someone to high Havoc that would never have made it otherwise (assuming they had more time to invest at least). It may make them less of an active detriment, but without the appropriate twitch reflexes, muscle memory, combat instincts, and ability to read and assimilate all that extra tactical information in a practiced and efficient manner, I don’t feel like the existing mod ecosystem is going to catapult anyone’s performance dramatically beyond what they’re natively capable of.
I’m open to being wrong on that, just in my experience I haven’t found that to be the case. In fact, I think the better you are the more mileage you’re likely to get out of most “cheaty” mods. Same way many old high end Quake deathmatches were run with toned down textures/visuals or altered PoVs and modified UIs from the base game to optimize player performance, but this really only made a difference at the highest levels of play and made the game look like butt for your average player.
In my case it’s because I don’t compete with others in a coop game but only with my past self. (Which has a natural steady progression the older I get.)
And how are you competing against your past self, in a coop game, if somebody is changing the playing field by diluting, dumbing down and make the overall game easier by using cheaty mods? They’re robbing you of that experience, but you’re OK with that because hashtag reasons ?
the difference is we didn’t get “more” info but a clearer view so to speak.
r_picmip “5”, true lightning and force-model “keel” was my standard setting way back when
and while it’s true that most suck no matter what, I bet some aquilas there are a few “havoc players” that would start to struggle if you took some of their mods away.
among them I count health bars and wallhacks.
even picmip 5 didn’t erase stuff like smoke for example as well, so crap that lets you see through smoke or transparent ogryn shields aren’t far behind on the scale to me either
I mean yeah “arbi mains” I write off as nuisance and “background noise” when it comes to the final score.
but some other fishy situations can spoil an otherwise fun race for the top
but I can only validate said improvement if I reliably perform better than others, hence kill more/faster, do auspex and objectives etc aka compete with 3 other people for these opportunities.
doesn’t stop at “pve” games
stays a 
