A different take on the game

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide General Discussion
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I agree a lot of stuff is missing, and there is much work to be done, but personally I consider the game to be a success. Other than the occasional publisher like NCsoft(multi-mmos), and Blizzard with Warcraft/starcraft (wich is whfantasy/wh40k) and some of those evil-conglome-hives of studios, no one has been able to develop two videogames that are basically the same, but have enough layers of mechanics and differences to make them both stand apart from each other, without eating away at each others playerbase.

The rejection on behalf of the Vermintiders, is no different than the rejection from Fantasytabletopers when 40k came out, and how to this day, those that play the tabletops religiously, debate on why one or the other is better in both rules/figurines/lore. That has been achieved here. Just as Vermintiders hate on Darktide, Fantasy hates on 40k. You replicated what GW achieved.

If Internet/forums where as prominent when WH40k tabletop was released, and Tabletops playerbase where as large as Steams playerbase, WH40k woulda died on the spot. The amount of fantasy players hating on it, because it was not exactly like fantasy would have generated so much backlash, and on top of that the endless amount negative reviews (from vermintiders/fantasy) would have discouraged a big chunk of people, that are considered hardcore fans today, from buying it, GW woulda been on the phone to China, DMing someone to cease production on any wh40k figurines. We would have never had experienced the amazing universe that WH40k is today.

How does all that relate to the game? Well, you are facing the same dilemma, but in a different medium. Either you kill what makes Darktide stand apart, and turn it into Vermintide, or you accept that you have tapped into another demo/market, and continue working on Darktide, refining the mechanics/gunplay that make it different.

I mean why not replicate what GW did? Some people prefer guns over swords, some people prefer medieval combat over military warfare, you can’t have one product that fits all. Why not develop both continously, with new iterations every 3-4 years, refining melee on vermintide, and ranged on darktide. Why not have Vermintide be the ultimate Melee one stop for fun, and Darktide be the run and gun thrill ride, always focusing on what really makes a Fatshark game, a Fatshark game, the way you just dump enemies for us to slaughter.

Why not have 10 million vermintiders, warring(In a civilized manner of course) with 10 million darktiders over wich is best? Competing against each other to see who kills more during the skulls for the skulls events, working together to unlock skins for the other game, instead of the one they are playing, in teh end just like with fantasy/40k supporting each other, invested in the success of both games, because they undestand that whats good for GW/fatshark is good for them.
With all the tools, guidelines, bibles what not you have already on Vermintide, and will soon have on Darktide, the all-stars(auric level operatives) can focus on new projects, taking risks, while still having a committed long term development for both Vermintide, and Darktide franchises, bringing money to keep the lights on, and keep growing. Maybe even one day with everything you have learned, develop your own IP.

People that might have taken a more secondary role in development can step up, and the addition of new people to the team to fill in the gaps for the veterans that want something more, will already have a guideline, and new blood, might bring in new ideas.

If anything its a New Year, and you should try looking at thing’s in a new way, yes the game is not complete, yes there are things wrong with the store, and there are a bunch of other issues (lets not forget all those pesky reviews on Steam). But the gameplay is there, and once you realize you have actually struck gold, and probably share this point of view with GW, you will see that all this is not that crazy, and that you should be excited, and they should be excited, because all this can end up being a really good thing.

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No thanks, nobody is trying to hold FatShark to a higher standard. This is the most simple business practice ever:

  1. Make a promise
  2. Delivery on that promise

If you did 20% of your job, but that 20% was really good, do you expect your management team to be satisfied or will you get in trouble?

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Not if the whiners who are crying for nerfs (and believe that the Psyker is the golden standard of balance) have anything to do with it. They will whine and whine. The only correct route for Fatshark is to ignore them and buff weaker/unpleasant stuff. If the gameplay goes, thats it for the game. Enjoy your playerbase of 500 sweatlords.

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Darktide and vermintide don’t effect each other’s player bases? As you said, they’re almost the same game, why do you think so many VT2 players are complaining about darktide?

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im what you’d call a “vermintider” whatever that entails,

and im currently playing neither DT nor V2.
i got burned out by v2 as i did the same things over and over and the game stopped to be challenging enough to tickle the itch of self improvement.

so i was quite hyped about DT as it promised fresh air not only setting but also gameplay.

but in the end its not all that different,
sure feels good but there are so many copy and paste things that i can recognize
mix that with the overall lack of content, and absolute trash hub experience it couldn’t hook me for long.

tl:dr im actually someone who wanted DT to be different but stopped it partly because its too samey to V2.

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IMHO Darktide’s major issues have nothing to do with the core gameplay. I love that DT is and feels different from Vermintide 2, despite sharing many familiarities. And Im certainly not calling for DARKTIDE to be Vermintide 3.0.

Sure, there are balance and pacing and difficulty issues to sort out, and need to be handled uniquely to the combat situations and mechanics DT is built around.

However, where DT falls woefully short is when it comes to loot, RNG, progression, mission selection, etc. I’m all for making DARKTIDE different than the VT2, but I want it to be at least as good (and ideally better) than VT2. These meta systems are all awful feeling and detract from the core gameplay experience. The point of comparison to VT2 is pointing out that Fatshark did it better in a previous game and they should be aiming to improve - not making it worse.

DARKTIDE should and can be its own unique thing. But it so needs to be good across all of its systems and layers, and right now it isn’t.

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I just don’t understand these discussions anymore. Who wants Darktide to become Vermintide? Nobody. Neither Darktide nor Vermintide are pure Melee or Ranged games, both have a very similar concept, obviously, and I wouldn’t want to miss one or the other in either game. But that wasn’t the point at all, despite all the criticism of Darktide and the comparisons with its predecessor. The crux was pretty much all the systems around the gameplay, which were implemented better in Vermintide than in Darktide.
Hardly anyone criticized the gameplay, although I don’t think it’s necessarily well thought out either, which you only notice on higher difficulty levels.

I also asked what was so great about the Darktide gameplay compared to Vermintide, but unfortunately I didn’t get any real answers where it really stood out and what exactly made it better. Maybe I’ll get an answer to that now…

If anything, players who have already played Vermintide would have surely wanted a new fresh game design (see the discussions about non-existent weapon attachments for example) and not a 1:1 gameplay copy in an unfinished game, because unfortunately Darktide is not much more at the moment. So it’s not about turning Darktide into Vermintide at all, but to make it better and stand out more.

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People referrencing darktide not being VT3, what does everyone mean? For all intents and purposes, it basically is VT3 to me by way of it being the next tide game after VT2.

What could fatshark do to turn it into VT3 that people seem to not want? I dont understand.

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i have no idea how this is supposed to be that different.

but to answer your question:
they could start with making it more enjoyable

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Just for reference

Whoever says that this game wasn’t mean to be a sort of VT3 is wrong.
It was advertised as a VT3 with polishing and of course some differences because of the greater emphasis on the ranged combat

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i may have misread or misunderstood, but I haven’t met/seen anyone complain about/dislike darktide for being in 40k rather than fantasy. least of all past vermintide players

most of the vermintide players I know, myself included, are upset over the state of the game overall, with dozens of unfulfilled promises, lies, unfinished mechanics, misleading marketing, overall lack of polish, ect.

i preordered the imperial edition the DAY it came out, I also bought my brother a copy, I had 2 other friends who played vermintide for about 200 hours each who bought it within the month. all 3 had issues with performance, crashing, and frustration due to missing mechanics. none of them ever said anything that could be taken as “fantasy is better” it was “I wish this game was good”

I’m sure there are people out there who don’t like darktide or verminitde because of their chosen setting, however, those people are in the fringe minority.

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Generally, everything outside the gameplay definitively does not carry a lot of resemblance to VT and VT2, i.e. what most people here complain about.

For me specifically it is primarily the classes instead of characters, lack of story, voices in general and, above all, audio cues that I find so much below both previous games that it makes me cry.

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I get what you want, but i clearly have to disagree.

The gameplay in Darktide is a really good mix of range and melee combat and is able to cater everyone. You can already see it at the classes. E.g. Vet is made for players who wants to rely more on range, while Zealot wants to go into melee combat as often as possible.

I don´t even see how the could “improve range-gameplay”, unless they pretty much throw ammunition on you, coming with faster reload-times etc… but even then it wouldn´t be so much fun like the mix we´ve and you might force 40k fans, who loves melee combat, to drop the game.

The gameplay is fine, we just need more content aka weapons, maps and classes…

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A different take on game that takes 80% of assets, animations, mechanics, skeletons from Vermintide 2 with some enemies being 100% rip-off reused Vermintide 2 reskin enemies/bosses. Totally not Vermintide 3 in WH 40k. Not at all.

“Either you kill what makes Darktide stand apart”: Excuse me, what makes Darktide stand apart from Vermintide 2? Auto guns vs black powder guns? Flamer vs Flamethrower? Lasgun vs Longbow? Yeah, sure, one has futuristic guns. But what else makes Darktide stands apart from V2? Same animations for weapons, 90% same melee system, reused enemies, same combat mechanics. Toughness? Wow, big change. Reused Talents from V2? Sprint? Becasue we move slower? I don’t see what makes DT stand apart… maybe 60 min refresh store.

Calling others “Vermintiders” when trying to say “we should work together” but trying to seperate community into some sort of “vermintiders” faction, who are just players who already saw what Fatshark is for few years and their pink-glasses were shattered long time ago. So “we are in this together… but those dang Vermintiders”.

We are also not holding Fatshark, as was mentioned, to any higher or different standards. You make promises, you deliver. You want to release game, you release finished game. “Core Gameplay is great” - congratulations, you achieved MINIMUM.

What the hell you want from gaming indrustry? You want to be shelled with unfinished games, early access launches, broken promises from studios counting money they made while not engaging in any form of communication with players? Studios that keep ignoring any negative feedback because “yeah, ok, you are right but we thought this is good so we gonna ignore you. We want feedback that confirms OUR IDEAS, OUR OPINIONS. We want Echo Chamber”.

What the hell you want people? You want fixed, finished games? You won’t get them patting devs on back “you done fk it up, but that’s ok, you can fix it later, right? Again, for 3rd time. No consequences man”.

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“Games Workshop has trusted us to craft a co-op game that respects the setting, whilst giving players a familiar yet fresh approach to a format we have been polishing throughout development of both Vermintide titles over the last five or more years.”

Melee is not Fatsharks format.

The format is how they present enemies, and missions are made. That format did translate here. While the melee is great in vermintide, it is not that different from Techlands melee combat in Dying Light/Dead Island. What is vastly different from other games is how they dump enemies at you, and how they setup the areas where they do. That is what makes Fatshark games stand out.

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You’ve slain a mighty strawman today, good sir. Rest easy tonight, more battles await you come the morrow.

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DT’s problems isn’t that it’s different from VT2.
Yet to hear someone say it should remove everything and become VT2 either. Seems like a strawman to me.

Problem with DT is that it is lacking systems and any system that are there are unrewarding and not fun. The problem is the game is not finished.

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Of course if you adapt the words to your idea instead on the opposite, you are right.

The format is the general presentation of the game with the general rules, the missions, the enemies.
You cannot exclude the melee combat (and if you are comparing it to Dying Light or Dead Island I guess you never played all the games you are talking about).

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Which if you where to take that quote you referred to court, the judge would give you the exact same response you gave me, you are adapting what you read to what you want it to be, and would probably rule in Mine/Fatsharks favor.

In regards to melee, if you take melee out of Darktide, and make it 100% ranged, it will still be a Fatshark game, because as I said, and then you repeated afterwards in more words “The format is the general presentation of the game with the general rules, the missions, the enemies.” If you remove everything else but melee, or replace it with somebody elses formula of enemy placements, spawning, it will cease to be a Fatshark game. Give Vermintide to anybody else they will fail, because they wont be able to replicate the experience you get from how Fatshark presents and delivers enemies to you.

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Lol, in court?
Has this became matter for lawyers? :rofl:
Ok whatever you say. Goodbye