What kind of options do you want to give to the base classes? Should everyone get options for melee, ranged and maybe support play? Then there is no reason for new classes in the first place. Think about what the Ogryn can get in the future, i guarantee you the classes will literally be the same as the Ogryn enemies we have now. One specialised in ranged combat, one specialised in tanking and one specialised in melee damage.
I can even easily imagine what ultimates they get. Ranged gets a Minigun (like Engineer), Tank gets a taunt (like Ironbreaker) and Melee gets burst damage (like Grail Knight).
This would at least be lateral instead of a downgrade, but no. I would like options that play to the lore of what weāre playing, things that might very slightly tweak how you want to play, or what weapons youād want to run with. And maybe not āgrenade spamā as the optimal way to play for a class, just as an example.
I mean, thats what weapons are for. They are the prime factor on what you are doing during a run. Feats are usually just supporting your weapon build.
I was able to play quite differently as Veteran with various weapons, either go into melee more and just use my revolver against high priority targets or stay behind with my Lasgun and only use melee when an enemy comes near me. Feats would have supported these playstiles as well, if i had changed them.
Thatās what Iām sayingā¦? Feats should be catering to that sort of gameplay. Also the weapons, while more numerous (though Iām sure a lot of the 70+ is split among variations) are not a new system. Thereās just a bit of crossover we didnāt have in VT2.
But they do cater to those kinds of playstile. I dont take the ā+25% damage when being far away from my targetā feat when i do the melee playstile but certainly use it when i go with Lasgun. Its literally the same as in Vermintide 2.
I dont know why you need a new system. Darktide is Vermintide with a 40k skin. Did you expect something else? Did you expect more? Why should the system be changed in the first place?
For a game that wants to move forward and do better, yes. I expected some more effort to go into the part of the game that makes it interesting, making character builds. Not taking a feat that increases damage at range isnāt equal to making a build around shotguns or melee as Veteran, Iām not sure what youāre trying to get at there other than āVT2 did it and people like it, therefore youāre wrong haha!ā
It isnāt the gotcha you think it is. If they want to keep what did well, do it. But add to the system. Add new systems, even. Do something to keep the gameplay loop fresh, make the game a bit more interesting than its predecessor, donāt just sit on the laurels of the previous game and rely entirely on the new setting to carry the game.
I believe i see the problem. Your expectations of constant progress of a game series arent met. I suggest you make a list on what and how the system could be improved and make thread on the general Darktide Forum.
Darktide does have changed and included new features like the detailed character customization, map modifications that were only limited time events in V2 and secondary objectives during runs which basically changed the staple of farming books in both Vermintide titles.
Again, if you want more specialised character build options, then you also have to get rid of classes, because the game is limited and the melee specialised Veteran would play the exact same way as the melee focused class of the Veteran. But you also said you just wanted light tweaks and thats what the feats can give you now. Thoudh i also believe you dont quite understand that feats arent the build, but the support for the build.
Darktide is an experiment, same as Vermintide 2 was an experiment. None of these games are fleshed out or properly planned to be the staple of the Tide series. Fatshark has to look what works and what doesnt and a lot of stuff didnt work for Vermintde, like a lot of stuff will not work for Darktide either.
Iām not saying the game hasnāt iterated at all. Iām saying it failed on iterating on this single aspect. Your mental gymnastics donāt really change the fact that almost nothing regarding talent builds has been iterated on.
I am not a native english speaker and iterating is translated to repetition. Are you actually saying that Darktide didnt repeat the talent builds from Vermintide 2? Because thats what i read from " Your mental gymnastics donāt really change the fact that almost nothing regarding talent builds has been iterated on".
Iteration is similar to repetition, but iteration involves adding to and improving what youāre repeating. In this case the repetition is the talent system, not the details. Hopefully that helps.
Yeah ok, i believe you are saying that they repeated but didnt add anything new to it.
Do you have an example of what they could add? Lets forget about the fact that they got rid of trinkets apparently and we cant upgrade stuff like grenades and map items or that properties like crit chance and attack speed are missing on weapons.
Personally Iām a fan of branching trees rather than flat 3 choice per 5 levels. This isnāt necessarily what I want, but as an example Veteran could have a number of points to spend based on level, with two ābranchesā that may have their own branching elements dedicated to close and long range weaponry, or autofire and semiauto weaponry.
Iām not sure if we are going to see trinkets and such at all, it is also something Iām a bit worried about, but yeah itās not entirely relevant for discussing just talents.
Yeah, but it is quite relevant for build variety though and properties and traits on the items were used for the basic build that then got supported by the talents.
My question was more about actual talents and not the looks of the talent screen. I mean, right now the Veteran has talent options for long range and close range, i dont think it would change much if the talent screen is just different but the talents are still the same.
Now, if you want to go more into detail of long range and close range, for example, i would need to see what it would actually do, because eventually there isnt really much you could add except for more accuracy, less sway and the obligatory power push, but even those are already in the current talent tree mashed together. Could give him 100% chance on inflicting burn damage, but that would make a weapon trait completely worthless.
This does more than change how the talent tree looks. It creates build paths, which both allows the player to specialize and the developers to focus on weapon and skill interaction within the boundaries of a system that funnels talents into trees rather than just a board with 3 options per 5 levels. You donāt need to change the type of talents there are, just expand the options and make it more interesting to be one or another ātypeā of Veteran. Consider it an expanded form of careers, but with more player control.
But then again, to offer more options there have to be more options. I mean, what we are doing in the game is literally just using two weapons, a usually non-damaging ultimate and a tactical ability. There isnt really much to go with here.
Lets say we have a tree that goes into close ranged, long ranged and support for example. What would these branches actually give you that just doesnt make the weapon you chose slightly stronger? Where is the different playstile coming from through the talents?
I had a blast in the beta and I was forgiving of the issues because it was a beta and I loved the game, but people fresh to *tide games likely wonāt be so easy on it.
I just want the game not to die within the first year, which is a very real possibility in my region if it gets panned on launch.
may i ask wich region you are from? as far as i know V2 had problems with Oceania players basically having to play with Chinese if they wanted to play at all,
and south american players had to look for Mexican and Brazilian players to even find hosts
I can guarantee you, the game is not going to die. But i can also guarantee you that the starting playerbase will decrease hard in the first two months.
I expect a stable playerbase likely to Vermintide 2. I had hoped for double, but that is most likely not goind to happen. I believe you dont have to worry about a playerbase in your region as well, since the game has dedicated servers. I am from germany and played a good bunch of games with an american friend from the west coast and there werent any big problems.
Yeah, this. Co-Op pve games like this dump HARD if they donāt get off to a good start here. I was playing with Chinese people with 200+ping within 3 months of launch on Back4Blood. Deep Rock Galactic didnāt last a year here.
If it canāt hold that critical mass where you can get matches well outside of peak hours, it very well might. It wonāt die globally, for sure, but locally? Thatās a real possibility.
This is part of why Iām concerned. If thereās no monetary incentive to keep the local servers running, theyāll get thinned out and eventually shut down. This game wonāt be playable on international servers from my region because Iām looking at a minimum of 150ms.
Dedicated servers should make sure that you are not dependent on a local playerbase like with peer-to-peer. I mean, thats why i could finally play with my american friend without the latency issues we had in Vermintide 2.
