4 months later, still 2 cosmetics

Warhammer: Vermintide 2 Gameplay Feedback
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Are 2 hats in 400 hours better? See? I can use your logic aswell. The point that I’ve been trying to make is that there’s need to be a balance, for example, one assured cosmetic after let’s say 30 to 60 commandation chests, that’s still A LOT of grind, but at least you would have something to strive for, unlike the current game

So what? What kind of reasoning is that? I’m confused, just because it doesn’t have an effect in “real life” does that mean that the game is perfect and it shouldn’t improve ? What kind of argument is that?

Ironically vermintide 1 did a better job at rewarding the player. I mean, it kept me playing
for 790 hours which is a hell of a lot more then vermintide 2

That’s false, there are plenty of ways to make your game worth playing. In the case of vermintide 2 it’s fairly simple, more items and cosmetics on a regular bases while making them more accessible, or by giving more XP or special items to better players, buffing underpowered weapons and skills thus allowing players to try new builds and strategies ecc ecc

Does this mean that just because Vermintide 2 is a PVE game it can’t be fun and interesting to play? Does this mean that just because vermintide 2 isn’t a pvp game, it can’t have a system and gameplay that rewards the player? I’m sorry but I don’t understand your logic

And that’s good! I’m happy for you, but me and a bunch of other players can’t play a game for hundreds of hours just for the challenge. We need some kind of reward, some sort of acknowledgement for all the time we put into it, it’s 101 of any successful and lasting game be it PVE or Pvp, without it you leave the players and even huge fans like myself frustrated and bored

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It’s still RNG and not rewardable. Im sure it’ll be like "yey… finally a cosmetic… let’s grind another 50 chests… Wuhu… -.- "

That’s the only real reason about rewards in games. If you quit, all is gone and only memories will left.
You had fun? = great experience
You were pissed of because of bugs, no loot, bad/toxic players = you should’ve left earlier?

It’s not about “the game shouldn’t improve etc.” It’s about your own mind.

How many month did you played? Have you started with the game release?

FS released content within the time and will do the same in V2. It’s all about the time and the amount of cosmetics is quite low atm. The Game got released 4 month ago, that’s not pretty much time to design the “released V2” to a content Monster. Some ppl already got 1000hours of grind. There is no way a company could patch so much content.
They could add 1 new cosmetic every 2 weeks, Veteran players would get it day 1 or 2 with a more rewardable System that dont feels like an endless grind.

This problem lies in the “poor” Game design as well. Pick a champ, pick a mission , kill all enemies…again and again and again… Diablo was the same till the reaper of souls addon. It gave you endless difficulties and a ranking ladder. Every loot is just the same, maybe with 1% more xy, but that’s all.

Games like that need special content. There is no world to explore, not 1000 quests to do, not even a real levelsystem.
It needs more challenges, more maps, something like housing…

I would prefer special loot for better players too, but that wont happen. That’s something from the good old days and won’t hold the gamebase with “normal” players.

It is fun and interesting to play, even without any rewards. Like i told above, the “i need a reward” mind blocks this fun more than it would help.
RNG is still not rewardable. It is endless grind for patient or stubborn/ambitious ppl. Okri’ s is more “rewardable”. You got a quest, you did it , you gained your “reward”. The rest is just luck and you cant balance it.

That’s the end. There is no need to play any further , if you lose your fun. It’s better to leave with good impressions and comeback with the next update, event , etc., than to leave in “war” with the game, that gave you 400h fun, but youre fkd up due to the lack of content.

Just to be clear, i dont want to defend the game or FS. This is just my point of View, because i know a lot of ppl who needs rewards. It killed a lot of good games, relationships and memories for them. They missed to take a break and just sit there… “Yeah wow this again, that loot again etc.” At the end they were such pissed off and dont even care about their own “friends”. Just raged around till everyone logged off.

I know it feels bad, if a favorite game goes that way, but there a still 2 Options. Give it the time or take a break.

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Thats rich coming from a guy who played this game at least 7 hours every day since beta/release. Maybe you start looking for a job now, so you can calm down and learn a little bit about business.

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I work from home and likely pay more in income taxes, than you make all year.

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areyousureaboutthat

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Don’t think in 1-es and 0-oes.

There IS a ground between “free korean MMO” level grind, and getting all hats in first 30 hours playtime.

There’s a balance to be achieved in the equation: “time investment” -> “reward”.

And right now i believe the cosmetics are too rare, judging by my 800 hours played (about 300 hours from 1.1 patch which upped droprate to whooping 1.5-2%), i have 4 hats dropped from chests, and there’s 9*5=45 non-default hats in the game total.
So for another ~3000 hours i would still have cosmetics left to unlock. That’s like 1.5 years of working at a full time job (40 hours per week).

No sane person would grind for the hats, the best approach here is just like you said - to forget about the whole cosmetic rewards, and play the game for gameplay. Then rises the obvious question - why the hell the cosmetics system exists in the first place? If it doesn’t keeps people interested with reasonable “time investment” -> “reward” ratio? Or “hard challenge” -> “reward”?

The hats could be all available for all players from the start, and the game’s longivety won’t be affected in the slightest, in its current state.

So there’s definitely exists a better solution/drop-rate, a golden middle-ground, that will actually make players want to grind for hats, and stay in the game for exactly that.
Hat aquiring rate should be buffed x2, or even x3 times. With a generous estimate: 1 hour = 1 comm chest, with 6% dropate (trippled), you’d need (average estimates follow) 17 hours for 1 hat. You get all hats for 765 hours played. 153 hours for 9 hats on 1 hero. And remember, there’s many more un-added hats, both new and from Vermintide 1. If you think these time investments are too short - then i don’t know what to say even.

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i played less than 30 hours and got 9 cosmetics , its all about the rngesus

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Pretty much this… I was on here complaining about lack of cosmetics because I only had 9 at the time, after 500 hours. Not realizing that other people only had 1 or 2 after 700 hours. The games RNG needs some serious love. There needs to be fail safes put in place. Every chest you open should increase your chance of getting one. But still, even then, you might get the guy who’s still failing with a 90% chance of getting one lol. RNG is a really bad game play mechanic. Just let people unlock things by playing the game, working towards unlocks. Loot boxes are never a good idea, they absolutely suck on every single game they are implemented.

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according to a dev live stream they leaked info that wasn’t supposed to go public yet, but they are planning on selling you cosmetics for real money. so now the absurdly low drop rate makes a lot more sense, also explains why they aren’t interested in adding a pity timer or something.

unfortunately for them, the game will be dead before they ever implement their cosmetic store, player base is already crashing.

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Indeed it is, and in the current state some people just are not going to see any hats for a long time, as in several hundred hours and that is ridiculous and quite frankly unacceptable for a game you pay for.

We’re going to need ways to work towards a cosmetic or reward we want, or the dice are going to need some tuning to ensure people will get something, at least. Better yet if it is for the career you play.

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Mine was just an idea, if you read the OP you’ll see what kind of system I would like to have. One in which after each "empty chests " (no cosmetics) the percentage for a hat drop increases by 3/5% this way, even the unluckiest player will finally get his hat after a certain amount of time invested. This way not only you reward the player, but you also give them something to do.

OK… I guess? But i still don’t like to waste my time endlessly, I need something to strive for, and right now I got nothing

I started playing since the beta

Yes, but the two maps (first dlc) should have been released in late April, now 3 months later we are still with a buggy and repetitive experience.

True, but they could optimize the content that’s already there, for example by balancing the underpowered weapons and sklls that nobody uses, by fixing the cosmetic issue ecc ecc

It can, look at all the games that use it well or at least better, like Warframe, Diablo, Wow ecc ecc

No its not, the only reason I play Okri is to get cosmetics and red items and when I never get either of those, then Okri suddenly becomes useless

That’s kinda what I’ve been doing, but everytime I jump back in i always find myself frustred, because if only they could focus on certain features and systems this game could offer much like Vermintide 1 a lot more hours of gameplay, but sadly it seems that FS is more interested in selling us cosmetics rather then making the game better.

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I’m baffled as to why certain temporary things weren’t implemented.

Complete this Okri Challenge to get a strength buff for the next 20 mins, complete that deed for a buff to crit chance for the next 10 minutes etc. This was simple, recognizable things that kept people playing a little bit longer. To do a harder deed you might do some contracts first to buff your damage/defence for a little while. I think I did this to get my first complete of Trial of the Foolhardy on NM.

I just want things fixed. Underpowered weapons. Traits that are annoying. Cheese hits from enemies. AI director whacked out on speed. Ammo regen controlled a bit. CDR pyro balanced a bit better. Friendly Fire to become something that punishes the firer rather than the target, No more Ice Skating legions of Nurgle.

Can we just be quiet about hats for a little while and focus on the really big problems? Maybe? Just for a little while?

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I don´t know FS plan about buffs/nerfs, but i play a lot of “useless” weapons and i´m quite fine with it. I would prefer to nerf the meta ones and go around again with some new heavy attacks for “dual swords” as example. It all just lacks of AP. A CW is just pain without it. But on the other side is a teamgame. Everyone picks a Weapon for his job and gg.
If they start to buff the “underperforming” Weapons, the game would become totally easy on Legend. (My Opinion / Experience)
And well… maybe they just need to design new cosmetics first? Even Okri is just recolored stuff…

Let´s take Diablo, because it´s the “nearest” one. At some point it´s not rewardable in any way. Yes you get some stars on the map, but we all know, the best loot is even strong RNG. And it´s more RNG to get good stats, even if you reroll something. Kadala is Pain too. Rush 1238909790127390 portals to get 10 charms and hope for a good one. It´s endless grind to get 1 % more of anything or just another paragonlvl to beat 1 more g-rift.

Yeah you can feel some progress and it just takes longer as higher you get, but that´s not rewardable in any way. It just have got more skills, character customization and more heroes.

Vermintide is like 1 hero with a Melee Weapon and an ultimate. Just Sienna is a lil bit different. I play all chars the same way and it works. Other Weapons, but same stats… even on the careerproperties if possible.

I can understand that repetitive gameplay won´t hold the most players on a game. I can live with it as long as i got fun and increase my skill.
Do you play alone? It´s probably better to play with some mates or friendly randoms. Or start to play with bots. I do it quite often if i can´t find some players, who could live with my playstyle. Waiting or dieing for other players sucks too. ^^
It´s so much more fun to have some freedom in this game and you just know, the bots / good randoms will save your back and don´t cry like chickens.^^

I´m pretty sure it´s not about the hats. That´s just a palpable reason , why this game is not “rewardable”.

This game just needs content to live or i´ll probably sit here with just 10 ppl left in 3 month.
The “Bugs” can´t be that hard too, if the ppl still playing 50-100 hours per week. ^^

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Of course you do, thats why you behave like a troubled teenager, cry about a video game and insult the developers. Like i said before, get a job kid and grow up.

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Ok, so I’m being facetious about the hats.

BUT

Have a look at the effect of the increased drop rate of Reds. There are many threads where people are moaning about having so many duplicate trinkets that it’s silly. This was only an increase of 0.5% and now people are swimming in red trinkets and getting in a mood about it.

If FS increase the rewards or drop rate (for whatever that may be) then there will be people who get all hats in a matter of weeks/days and moan bitterly about the amount of content available.

Every player has their own built in feeling about what is rewarding. For me - it’s having a good run with some people who are ok and have a bit of a light hearted laugh without being complete and utter wazzocks. For others they need to get a sense of completion and reward for playing the game by getting skins/hats/weapons. Both are excellent reasons to play.

And now I think we’re at the crux of the problem. What is rewarding for one player, isn’t for another. As it’s a first person game, I’m not bothered what kind of hat I’ve got. Although I am getting quite cross that I haven’t got the ONLY red fireball staff for Sienna yet. Red weapon skins would be a much better investment as far as a player feeling rewarded is concerned for FS than hats. Put in a load of weapon skins that people can see when they play, with some REALLY cool particle FX and red/yellow/green runes and people will invest far more time in the collection of these things.

Make getting ANYTHING a matter of skill, and the whole issue becomes nonsensical. No more chests, no more RNG. A contract board with some items needing some very hefty completions to gain.

" Complete Convocation of Decay as Kruber 50 times on Champion + to receive the Knights Hospitalier Red Rune Red Executioner sword."

“Complete Athel Yenlui 50 timesas Kerillian to receive the High Elf Blue Rune “red” Spear and Shield”

“Complete Into the nest 50 times as Sienna to receive the Dwarf-Forged Red Rune Smoking mace.”

This is all better than “Hope to Sigmar you get something that isn’t complete pants.”

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I already told my opinion about the awesome droprates and duplicates in another thread so maybe you read it. ^^

I would prefer skill-rewards and quest-rewards too, but that wont hold the “casuals” at the game. The actually droprate wont so it too, but thats another issue.

I cant see any game these days , which dont have the “no content” issue after the first month. Even the AAA games got this problem. There are too many games and too many ppl which just run from game to game.
The games are all fine , but 1000hours content (which isnt endless grind, RNG or just repetitive content) needs about 15 years development and that’s probably not enough.
PVE Games have a hard time vs the 1000000000 pvp, moba, battleground games. Ppl want to feel better than others and that is still more a reward than slaying 100000 rats.

Im pretty sure that is the “real reason” why games like vermintide or even destiny fall down so fast. The ppl want to much for a low price and just forget about having fun and the rest ist just extra.

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I recently got my first one after about 400 hours. It’s the dwarf ranger one with an extremely slightly different nose guard. There is no way anyone would notice unless they look closely while you repeatedly switch between them.

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600+ HOURS in I just recently received my very first cosmetic drop…

It makes no sense that cosmetics should be this rare or require this long for anyone in game to receive one after even over 100hours of playtime. Cosmetic items of all things should be more common a reward in comparison to even reds unless of course they are given out by doing challenges.

They definitely need to increase the drop chances on cosmetics, the rng is way way to low at the moment.
:poop:

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They actually have talked about adding in protection from bad luck RNG. We’ll see if it happens though.

As for the hats, I’m currently waiting to get a response from FS about the drop mechanic.

I’m either getting very unlucky now, or the cosmetic drop system is broken. From what I understand, after you have unlocked all the hats for 1 character, which I assume I have for Kerillian, they are supposed to drop on another character. I haven’t had that happen yet.

But from what I’ve seen in game, and from forum posts. It looks like there is currently 3 hats for each job/class of every character. So 9 hats altogether for each character. This is not including the 100 clear hats from Champion and above, which would be 4 hats per job/class for a total of 12 hats per character.

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The problem isn’t the probabilities, the problem is that with strong RNG and a lot of players (in this case, thousands at any given time), some people will get screwed over and some will get incredibly good luck. The people close to the middle of a bell curve get the fair treatment, the ones in the higher end don’t mind their anomaly, but the ones in the low end of the curve get disappointed and complain. Forum posts are inherently biased, as the extremes are far more likely to be shown than the average. That’s why the actual chances of Veteran or Cosmetic item drops are now where they will be for the foreseeable future, but some kind of bad luck protection is considered and possibly on its way to implementation (even if slowly).

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