2H Sword Reach < Falchion Reach...?

Title says it all really. Not sure whether to post this under Bugs or not because it’s so objectively incorrect. Tested with the dummies just now.

My main issue really is that the weapon is visibly longer. By a large amount.

Don’t know what else to say, really. People are always complaining about the 2h sword, I hear it lacks AP but others argue that it is a CC specialist.

OK, but why does the falchion not only have longer reach but also has a downward strike suitable for AP when 2h sword does not?

Sort it out, Fatshark. Between the hidden stats that fundamentally alter gameplay (different crit%, dodge and push strengths for weapons, etc etc), the broken talents, and now just clearly careless and illogical design, I am frustrated beyond words…

I keep hoping for fixes but every time I log on I notice more things like this. I know you guys are mostly on holiday for July and everything, but I sincerely hope that you address these issues when you are fully staffed again.

I’m not going to threaten to stop playing because I don’t want to be that guy, and also I’m too weak to follow through, but consider my fist shaken in your general direction.

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There’s a long and short answer to this. For the sake of brevity we’ll go with the short one unless someone shows up and tries to cry foul.

Robin said on reddit (in between all his other community antagonizing posts) a few months ago that the two-handed sword has less reach because “you can’t physically swing the weapon that far.”

https://puu.sh/ABnGR/f824448bad.png

Fatshark implemented a lot of skewed realism into Vermintide 2, which is obvious beyond the 2-handed swords awful state: everything is slower than V1, and they added a lot more attacks that we didn’t need to weapons that have completely ruined their combos (like Shields, and the elf 1-handed sword charge attacks).

It has less reach because in this fantasy game about mowing down rats (or the lack thereof) you, as a person, can’t swing a two-handed sword further than a one handed weapon.

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Well I take back the careless part, at least. Still, that leaves a real balancing issue, given that it is, as you say, a game.

Totally with you on shields too. Loved my axe and shield in V1, now it is trash. Ironic that there are fewer really usable weapons despite the additions. Thinking also of the brace of pistols, of which I got my second red duplicate tonight…

:roll_eyes:

Totally agree, the 2h having less reach is just garbage. What a stupid place to take a stand in the name of “realism”. Heck, a reach boost might be all 2h swords need to really be viable

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I just wish fatshark respect lore
Greatswords are ap weapons on warhammer…

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It’s not a bug, but a conscious decision by the devs. Not that I agree with it, balance- or realism-wise. For balance, many weapons still need a bit extra oomph. For Two-handed Sword, it could (at least partially) be the extra safety that 10-15% more reach would bring. For realism, a personal, half-minute test indicates that keeping feet planted and not stupidly extending my body, a longsword (slightly smaller than the Zweihanders used by Markus and Victor) still has a~10 cm reach advantage over an Arming Sword (i. e. the one Markus and Sienna carry, slightly longer than a Falchion). You certainly can extend a hit with a one-handed weapon farther than that, but at that point your balance, accuracy and weapon control are all but destroyed, and you’re incredibly open to counterattacks. Besides, that’s certainly not what out heroes appear to be doing, in first or third person view.

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@Yzneftamz
Absolutely agree.

A lot of the weapons have weird reach btw, it isn’t just a Salty boy problem.

I’ve tested all the Elf ones. The 1 handed sword has one of the longest reaches for the elf, comparable to the spear. The glaive has the shortest distance, if I remember correctly, even the daggers reach farther than the glaive…

Reading this again has me scratching my head a bit here. Am I supposed to take with me that the reason for that 2h swords are shorter in reach… is because of something they discovered in War of Roses/Vikings? I’m not sure I understand the whole realism part of the matter.

Okay, I guess it’s fair in those cases, as I’m assuming they’re really trying to simulate realism (I wouldn’t know as I’ve never played the games) - but try kiting a hundered rats properly with the sword in VT2 with its garbage dodge efficient count, distance and block movement speed and you’ll see that you can’t really do the same thing here.

AFAIK there’s several attacks in Vermintide, especially from rats, that cause them to step back during an attack and cause any attempt to hit their torso or head to be harder. I am unsure if the same animations exist in VT2, and I am aware it’s not exclusive to the 2h sword. Anyone who isn’t a Zealot (with possible exception to Mercenary) would probably have to push in between slashes to prevent taking too much damage from the temp. hp they’re gaining from the sword’s massive horde DPS in a cone. Pushes that do help prevent hyperdensity as rats/chaos are pushed out of slots, but in trade slowing down your DPS and possibly flooring enemies which makes you miss their head or them completely.

What’s making it even more awkward is that you get real slowed down by swinging the thing, so it further makes self-defense even more awkward if you’re surrounded. It’d be lovely to hear what the game designers think about the topic again and could give some final word on the matter.

That being said, I love the sword and I’ve rarely had as much fun as I have with Zealot by using it, despite its terrible armor damage. Positioning and timing can help you offset a ton of issues. I recall using it in VT1 when it had faster charge time but less reach, they reversed this later on and it killed it hard for me as it suddenly felt way too sluggish and unsatisfying.

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Robin is definitely living in his own fantasy land,

A 2 foot shortsword does not have the reach of a 5-6 foot Two Handed sword…

No matter how you slice it.

Its not physically possible.

His “realism” argument… actually falls far short of reality.

On TOP of that they had to make the exact same change in V1 just to balance the two (Patch 1.10)…

They had to decrease the reach of the Falchion and Increase the Reach of the Two Handed Sword.

EDIT: If they’d followed this right off the bat, they never would have needed to Nerf the Falchion in the first place.

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Well, that’s exactly it innit. A wooden sword is much lighter than a metal counterpart, you’re not going to handle a two handed sword as it appears in game like a falchion or longsword, it must be held closer to your core.

A one handed is the length of the blade plus your arm.
A two handed will use less of your arms and more of the blade for reach.

Though the two handed swords do need love.

In Street Fighter they did something really silly in the first game. They gave Chun-Li less health than everyone else strictly because she was a female fighter.

And I’m like, that’s where the line was drawn? We have people shooting fireballs and kicking so hard they helicopter off the ground.

That’s what the 2-handed sword is to Vermintide 2. A bizarre decision.

But that’s what the whole game is based on.

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Exactly. There are so many unrealistic gameplay components in the game already ( enemies hitting you from miles away when you walk away from them but did not dodge for instance ) why suddenly 2h sword reach has to be grounded in reality.

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