I don’t really consider the current deed system an end-game if only because in my many hours of playtime I’ve gotten under 10 legendary deeds. Its just silly.
Time playing =/= time spent actually enjoying the game. I’ve spent 100 + hours on games just troubleshooting mess such as dark nexus… not exactly good reasoning at all to use that as a metric for ROI.
It does feel grindier to level than in beta, which is expected since they needed people to test things in beta, but now it takes too long, and I miss the concentrated brew potion spam that some people moaned about. There were a lot more enemies to cleave through then, and with potions was quite fun
Now, take the zealot for example, he is no longer useful and we have to grind just to unlock him, and grind some more afterward to pickup necessary talents for viability
So what if you suddenly get a hat or a red? Isn’t that also gonna be end-game for you? Just play this game for fun, the entire point of Vermintide revolves around getting better and trying out various gameplay styles and mastering them. Reds/Cosmetics are showoff, bugs will be fixed, DLC will arrive.
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Some people, myself included, just prefer merit based reward systems over lottery’s. This was an issue with the first game that they addressed, its just shocking to see it again when we’ve already gone through this once.
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This complaint is made about every MMORPG at release and alot of other games at release. Just change “no end game” to “not enough end game”. It’s the same nonsense. People who put 100+ hours into a game a month outrunning how fast content can be made. There is no such thing as infinite content without infinite grind. End of the day: you can play through content 10 times as fast as it can be created as a normal gamer…much less power gamers spending100+ hours per month.
There is literally no fixing this issue. It’s not fixable. No game will ever have infinite content. Even Warframe, with years of development and multiple overlapping grinds lasts about 1,000 hours at best. And that game’s grind makes this one look generous. They just overlap like 5 grinds at a time so you don’t notice as much.
How would you implement merit based rewards and what’s your solution for end game? Keep in mind development of new content takes time. Much MUCH more time than it takes to play through. Keep in mind this must withstand 150+ hours of play, as that is what people are complaining at now.
Well we discussed this a few days ago but there is a way to fix it. You can’t try and dismiss anyone who wants to play the game and get SOMETHING in return as simply being content starved. At level cap this game just doesn’t provide a rewarding experience, it provides high challenge, followed by disappointment as your night of progress amounts to nothing. I don’t know about you, but my group and I don’t open our vaults while running, and we all know that as soon as someone needs to take a break and the others decide to open theirs, thats it for the night, as all or 3/4 of us will get nothing, and feel like putting anymore time in is pointless.
We had this talk already, you saw my suggestion and agreed with it.
ya the deed drop rate could be increased or let you reuse them I think. Right now it is close to stuff like maps in path of exile or diablo used to be pretty low.
I agreed it was good feedback, not necessarily something that should be implemented OR would be practical. Because the thing you finally said was, at last clearly indicative of what you want in more exact terms instead of vague emotional terms…which can mean many things based on both the person and what they want.
You referenced Monster Hunter 4U. But what you neglected to realize is that game is all about grinding and farming. And people DO complain, but here’s the thing: Monster Hunter has been around for over a decade, it’s got a dedicated fanbase that expect grinding for that game so when people complain this happens:
That’s just MH it’s only boring if you don’t enjoy the core of the game imo
You’ll find that’s a common theme. Monster Hunter the series is all about farming and grinding. Constantly, on the same monsters for a % chance of a drop. And sometimes that % chance is Red Weapon/Cosmetics level bad. People know Monster Hunter is going to be a grind when they buy it and I daresay people scared off by the Red Weapon grind here would not survive basically any of the Monster Hunter grinds.
The same exact philosophy could be applied to Vermintide. “That’s just Vermintide, it’s only boring if you don’t enjoy the core of the game.” So if Monster Hunter is your example, we are at an impasse. Because the game’s have more content, but they also cost more money at $45.
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And their new game people hurting on that end game grind: Reddit - Dive into anything
300+ hours, 500+ hunts with HH. Probably have bagged close to 70 streamstones. I have gotten three. three. THREE. Hammer streamstones. Some days I want to jump into the sea.
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I was specifically referring to Monsterhunter 4U’s guildquest system, as a basis for redesigning heroic deeds around. As they were hunts with extra difficulty you gathered during regular gameplay, that provided additional challenge and unique rewards in the form of alternate armor appearances and unique weapons. You could also share them with other players, and they only expired if you decided to delete them, however you could only have a maximum of ten guildquests registered at a time. This is a perfect system for heroic deeds, and it HELPED make 4U one of the most popular monster hunter games within the community until World came out.
*Edited for clarity because apparently it was needed.
Very good points, thank you.
This is very important:
"New enemy types have no character, no funny or memorable voice lines, just bland boring zombie groans.
Cosmetics are nowhere to be seen and veteran items either don’t show up or the game gives you 3 of exactly the same thing.
1/4 to 1/2 of the hero talents don’t even do anything, as other people on this forum has shown."
Please Fatshark, do something about it. 
That’s exactly what we have now. No redesign necessary. We just need the drop rates to be tweaked and time for more cosmetics to be added. That’s a rather roundabout way to say it by referencing a game people expect to grind hundreds of hours in for low % chance return rare ingredients.
This is a perfect system for heroic deeds, and it made 4U one of the most popular monster hunter games until World came out.
This sentence just seems odd. First of all crediting that system with the success of the game is silly. It’s your opinion presented as fact. It’s quite literally something you cannot know and dismissive of all the other things that made that game one of the more popular Monster Hunter games. It’s just what you are projecting on the game. Due to this pretty blatant overreach, I did what I do when curiosity is aroused. I research :).
Secondly, by your own admission, it’s “one of the most popular” games. Popularity =/= quality. Also when your qualification is ONE OF THE most popular, within that self contained franchise, it really feels like you’re trying to blow it out of proportion. After researching, it was obvious that this was exactly the case. You’ve got no basis to be stating this. You quite simply stated your feelings, which did not match with reality in this case.
You don’t think any of that had to do with the fact that MH was a new franchise and particularly unknown stateside during MH 1-2? What about the fact that gaming fricken exploded after the era of PS2?
Realistically, if you look at the game industry and series in context, 1 - 2 never had a chance. Let’s put this into perspective: God of War solid 4.6 million copies as the 14th best selling PS 2 game. That’s the level the industry was at back then. MH 3 was the breakout for the series and first after gaming went mainstream. People stateside finally knew what it was. Generations never made it stateside.
So we are left with Monster Hunter 3, Monster Hunter 4, and Monster Hunter World. Monster Hunter 4 has 8.3 million combined sales. Monster Hunter 3 has 9.4 million combined sales, Monster Hunter World is barely even released and it’s already over 6 million. So really it’s the least successful game in the franchise since gaming went mainstream. You can check Capcom’s platinum sales list yourself.
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But this is all an unimportant tangent right? Get back to the topic and all that eh? Well sure, but it now puts your opinion on this into context. You are uninformed presenting your opinion as fact . We agree drop rates need to be buffed, but you really need to drop the BS. Just say that instead of lying by using untrue statements about another game to feign credibility. It’s ok for your opinion to just be an opinion.
Good lord man do you have to pick apart the wording of every single post and take it at a literal value for every single word? You do this with every post and quite frankly its exhausting having to elaborate every single time. Vermintide 2 has no longevity to it unless you enjoy doing the same thing for no reward over and over again and if you disagree with that its fine, but its a fact right now, and we can all speculate that in the future it will be resolved and everything will be hunkey dorey but right now its crap and I’m playing the game right now not in a hypothetical future.
New maps would do a great good to the game and replayability.
The leveling experience is pretty crazy. In the end it’s going to take me about 90 hours of gameplay to hit power level 300 items.
You’re just mad I actually researched your unsupported claims lol. You stated, very directly, things that were not true. It’s as simple as that. Don’t lie, don’t misrepresent intentionally, I won’t have to call your bluff. If you’re worried about me picking something about, make a better argument.
This is 90% of gaming, and especially the game you mentioned Monster Hunter. People killing the same monsters for hundreds of hours to farm loot. FPS, Diablo style game, MOBA, Racing, Sports, horde mode, fighting games, etc. It’s called a core loop, and you are absolutely right if the core loop no longer has you hooked you’re going to leave. Only story driven RPG’s or “experiential games” really escape this as the point is the story/experience. Things like a Final Fantasy, Pony Island, The Stanley Parable, or Undertale. And even then RPG’s like FF often pad out their game with a repetitive core loop.
Ironically the core loop used to be enough for people. Battlefield 2, Mechwarior, Starcraft, DOTA 1, Street Fighter, Smash Brothers, Mortal Combat, LEFT 4 DEAD! But then gaming started layering skinner box mechanics on top of everything. And now you’re hooked like a drug addict. It’s no longer enough to just play, now you gotta get stuff or you’re not happy. Now you gotta chase that dragon.
You know why this is pushed? It makes more money :). They don’t want someone satisfied with the core loop anymore, and they have spent a decade of research, iteration, economists, and ecologist to learn how to screw with your head and it worked. Now many people are ruined, forever chasing an empty state of satisfaction but you’ll never be sated for long. It’s been what, a month? Ready for the next game already. Gotta spend, gotta feed, gotta get that fix.
I resent you labeling me as an addict for playing a game and not finding it a rewarding return for my time. You’re right, I am getting mad, as your posts are getting more and more antagonizing. Quit being a prick by trying to make me feel crappy for investing my time into gaming.
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By your own word you’ve spent 260+ hours on a game that’s been out less than a month. That’s 65 hours per week. And you are here spending your free time arguing about said game on the internet IN ADDITION TO all that time spent.
What else do you think you are? The denial is real.