other people have observed that your weighing is incorrect - i think all perks are equally likely to roll but t4 perks are less likely, and relate to the item level- but i wanna drill down on this one.
your odds are actually not quite right, since with 3/4 curios the chase stat is the blessing. you need to roll over a certain breakpoint (77 or 76 for toughness and hp i wanna say? could be mistaken) to get +21 HP, +17 T or +3 stamina. you are much, much more likely to roll under - so you would expect me, with much less than anywhere near 681472 curios rolled (69 owned total, never installed the shop app, have checked a fair amount but not obsessively) i would have terrible curios, with perks i didnāt like. even if you expanded your parameters to include some T3 perks you would expect almost no ideal items.
here are five of the 69 i own, or about 7%. every single one of them has at least two perks i really want and one i want. if i was chasing wounds i suspect iād have more, i do not. they arenāt perfect, but they are everything i wanted and for the three i wear all of them have 2/3 of the things i was chasing and a perfect blessing roll.
i strongly encourage people to try and reverse engineer the odds and iām most assuredly not bragging nor very lucky, but this as a sanity check suggests your model has some methodological problems.
This is fine. I mean it is totally understandable if you feel this way. I was making a jab/ Iām pissed about people who feel the same way as you and instead of talking about it they wrap their true feeling into a mask of other arguments, throwing around math.
I stand by my previous post as you should be asking for modded realm tho. I feel like that has a bigger chance to get exactly what you want, some people do find the endless grind enjoyable.
Hourly shop reset really needs to go. Itās a predatory FOMO s**t that has no place in the game. I donāt even know how they thought they can get away with something like that.
I wasnāt talking about the blessings at all on curios. Just the perks. Since thereās only one blessing, I assume once you find 1 T4 blessing at max rank, which I have seen enough of, there is no locking here so it would be super easy.
Itās the perks that are problematic for curios. Assuming you wanted 3 T4 perks exactly that you wantā¦ very low odds. The right combinations of 3 perks across 3 curios, more likely but still not easily achievable. Again this is based on how many hours of game play we should expect it to take to get a āgood enoughā combination (which in my mind is the EXACT desired combination but not necessarily right values of perks and blessings) and how many hours should it reasonably take to get PERFECT gear. I think itās too high on both accounts.
Fatshark has confirmed that perks and blessings have rarities outside of their tiers where some are more rare than others - say for example getting the Deflector blessing is far more rare than the crit chance. We havenāt reversed engineered it, yet, because at the time we ran the numbers in December it was obvious that even if there was an equal spread in rarity the chance that you got an upgrade past 360 was so insanely low that it was entirely pointless to even hunt for it.
We also predicted that with blessings being locked it would get even worse - evenā¦ EVEN if they decided to up the chances on 360+ weapons it will never be enough because at the heart of it, the problem is that perks and blessings are lockedā¦ Not the frequency of base rating.
Which we showed them. We had hoped they would listen, they said they were awareā¦ So it is dismaying to see that they didnāt fix anything, but is just shoving more gear in your face as if that solves the problem. It doesnāt.
Again, I donāt need to run the numbers on a 380 weapon, all I have to run is that:
T4 perk with a T5 blessing (with 13 possibilities) has a: 0,0063% chance to appear.
It is much worse for curios. The entire system is entirely useless and that is what a few people donāt seem to understand.
iām not super sure how blessings and the systems announced will interact, i kind of wonder if theyāll be able to move curio blessings like that? like, theyāre not fixed like weapon curios are, you can have a 21 HP with different item levels. weāll see, itās weird.
iāve played too much, iām a sucker for this game fr, but - i donāt throw away curios so subtracting EGs you can estimate roughly how many times i had to try, iāve only played 300-350 games on this character and have massive crafting stockpiles and plenty of leveled decent (and terrible) weapons. all the curios i posted came from the store and never milkās store or EG. on my alt following similar strategies and less than 100 games iām mostly there, with one ideal curio and two near.
the difference between my equipped curios and a perfect set of curios are (exhaustively) 5% gunner DR, 2% corruption resistance, 1hp, 2% stamina regen, 5% sniper DR and 1% combat ability regen. so iāve gotten very good, but perfect is a little farther and much harder to roll- but itās mostly OK because by this point the gains are so marginal from diminishing returns i donāt really care.
my absolute ideal would have the above, but lose corruption resistance for TR, health for DR snipers probably and combat ability for stamina regen, maybe? theyāre all very lateral choices i wouldnāt jump on either without thinking about it. balance changes and bugfixes have already radically changed which ones i want, lol.
i think the curio grind is awful to be totally clear, but unless you want all T4 blessings for that extra HP (which is lottery level impossible) then itās nowhere near as bad as your math suggests.
Itās about someone investing 350 hours to get where you are and knowing that at that point that someone might not be there. Itās about getting to the point where you can experiment with the equipment requiring a lot of thinking, and yet no matter what you do, you are limited by the RNG and by the amount of time you grind to roll the RNG.
There are lots of issues that this game has. This thread is about the one that has been the common ground for almost everyone - the equipment system. Getting the perfect item that someone wants is practically impossible, getting a very good item that someone wants is in average too time consuming for almost anyone.
I would assume once you get 1 max blessing on a curio (21% health lets say) all curios you want health for (on that character) would be done and you just put the blessing you want on. Since itās singular, its not like it can be locked afterā¦ I assume. How rare/hard is it to get that blessing on a curio? Beats me, but at least you have the freedom to play around with it and swap em out at anytime on your curios to try different things out (sounds nice doesnāt it?)
The other question I have for you though is what if they change something? Gunner for example in the last patch received a 20% damage reduction. Maybe youāre main is a psyker and with the new warp siphon charge changes you want to try running damage resistance against ranged attacks (the feat). So maybe damage resistance vs gunners (which is only the elite enemy type btw) is overkill and you want to swap that out (well you canāt or if it was your preferred you will spend a long time rolling it) and now you will need a new curio with something else. Especially since their damage reduction bonuses are multiplicative and not additive with diminishing returns (as I recall). This process of trying and fiddling and tweaking things is pretty much impossible. If 300-350 games is good for one set thatās a general play style or one build, thatās pretty awful incentivization to try out other combinations.
What do you think the odds are then, anecdotal and personal experience aside, for getting 3 correct combinations (of varying tiers) on 3 curious for one character?
Exactly what I was thinking. You work on the equipment you think you want now, and then suddenly something changes that not only makes your current plans a lot less desirable, but all the crap you passed becomes exactly what you need.
It is not as if Fatshark hasnāt drastically changed their games in the past, oh noā¦
Likeā¦ How they decided to change Shade which completely ruined all the builds it had available to it so people had to completely redo every single weapon and trinketsā¦
Good times. Iād be horrified if something like that happens here, 'cos with the current systemā¦ You simply cannot adjust.
well we donāt have the droptables, itās hard. i can kinda only give personal testimony and stats to let you know iām not exaggerating. to get the curios i posted? i think it would both take roughly how long i played and similar strategies to get them - here this is illustrative hereās exactly how far my vet is, 28 curios total currently on 81 missions and much much less store checking, very little crafting mats (out of diamantene and too much plasteel, god i was so young )
(sorry i was testing stuff and too lazy to go play the stupid clicking minigame, lol, itās progressed to the point free pretend those rerollable ones are T4)
here in less than a third of play we see more compromises - we have one perk i straight up do not want, two suboptimal blessings losing 2HP and 1T and not exactly the perks i prefer, only able to secure one S tier over all three (TR). my stable is also worse, i do not have another good toughness for example. but i honestly think these are pretty reasonable odds and i am rapidly approaching that diminishing return.
more personal anecdotes, sorry but i would estimate incredibly hard. a 77 curio roll is i think roughly as store rare as a 370? maybe rarer? that would be my intuitive assumption. now, with curios you have an advantage since you have fixed slots in the store and there are only four possible alternatives - you canāt keep rolling recon lasguns or whatever, you always roll some kind of curio. but the odds still enormously suck.
I stand by my previous post as you should be asking for modded realm tho. I feel like that has a bigger chance to get exactly what you want, some people do find the endless grind enjoyable.
I do really really want Modded Realm for Darktide, and the option to play using Peer-to-Peer with friends / strangers in order to lower ping and increase client/server sync performance.
I just very much have a feeling of learned helplessness that Fatshark would never deliver on this.
I just mean assuming the perks are all the same chance of dropping. I have only talked of blessings and tiers of perks or blessings not being equal. I think itās still difficult even if we assume that all perks have an exact equal chance of dropping for curios.
So with all perks being equal for a chance to roll for 3 curios at a specific combination (with varied tiers) on one character that would be 12/88 or 4/22 (22 perk combinations). That is a 0.6% chance (8/1331) each. That means you would get 8 curios meeting the combination you want after you have parsed through curios green-gold variety 1331 times (roughly). Now this gets even worse if we do this another 4 times on different characters. And gets even worse yet again if we want to change for different build ideas or if they change things with patches.
I have no illusions, it would take them at least 6 months at best to implement something like a modded realm knowing FS.
Iām just pretty sure if posts asking for modded realm (that would fix a myriad of issues including the game not being hard enough, random loot, etc) would have happened half as frequently (since the beta) as some loot math posts the players could have wrestled a promise out of FS by now.
Doubtful about modded realm. They early on stated they wouldnāt support mods, and I believe this is a technical limitation since the game is so backend centric. They would have to support a player hosted server version or host difference instances and I doubt they would do that. If they are doing any sort of scalability in their cloud/data center having the two instances run side by side would be more costly. Letting us host would be ideal, but then they have to develop in parallel the server side and client side installs which I donāt think they have the bandwidth to do. Personally I would have preferred no server hosting.
Would be funny if they did. Perhaps more than half the player population in the modded realm. Getting all the cosmetics for free. No RNG. I could see it.
Dedicated servers were one of the rare exceptions of players not actually knowing what they wanted lol. To be fair, Fatshark never said this would completely prevent modding for the foreseeable life of the game and put it up for āvote,ā so to speak.
Yeah, i think VT2 actually just dodged a giant bullet on that one, especially if i take into consideration that the same lag issues i had while playing on P2P still happens with Darktides dedicated servers, and its consistently worse than what it was in VT2.
heh we see this completely differently to i agree the majority play on malice and lower i bet that second difficulty is busy time to. i dont see the difficulties as something to progress through , and i do not think the gear available even if maxxed is going to make the difference to be be able to go up a difficulty, its knowledge, technique and the ability to reliably execute that technique that will get you up a difficulty no amount of gear is going to carry you if you dont have that.
in game terms its skill thats going to let you kill hordes reliably without getting hit, no gear is going to allow you to do that , it might make it faster more efficient but if someones getting rolled i dont believe giving them a maxxed weapon is ever going to carry them
i think the game is balanced and built to be played at those 2-3 difficulty levels , you push into heresy and beyond and the game starts to fall apart. those higher difficulties are not the point there not the goal there just a thing for a niche crowd who want a more difficult experince, i do think damnation is too easy for that crowd but i would also expect theres another difficulty iincoming v2 didnt have cata at launch if i remember right?
oh man now were are like two horses in harness on the same track! i have gone to that damn shop looking for a defelctor blessed sword at least 2-300 times cant even get a t1 roll , this system has sucked balls
im at about 330 and im still missing blessings , think i have one 380 roll my mains goto weapon is a 320 Eviscerator with t2momentum and t1 rampage
i dont think theres anyone defending this initial ,and frankly its a stretch to even call it a system. but it has kind of highlighted just how much you actually need high rolls and tiers as well.
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i agree the majority play on malice and lower i bet that second difficulty is busy time to. i dont see the difficulties as something to progress through , and i do not think the gear available even if maxxed is going to make the difference to be be able to go up a difficulty, its knowledge, technique and the ability to reliably execute that technique that will get you up a difficulty no amount of gear is going to carry you if you dont have that.