[NEW LORD] EDIT 2: he's a BERSERKER type!? He should not

[souI23]

@Rebel

I didn’t see anything that answered me this. Please copy paste it.

@souI23

During phase 1 and 2, it’s super-easy scoring headshots.

Phase 3 is a totally RNG mess. You have few small and rare windows to fire.
In this case burst damage (Huntsman) is useless. It’s better a single heavy damage (= BH’s ult).
Some random headshots, with HS, are pretty useless. You lose the %crit bonus in melee too.
As I will say below HS has the invisibility, sure, but you can exploit it only to score some bodyshots. The damage is pretty 0.

@Rebel

I mentioned hagbane since it is one of Shades or WS’s weapons, and it’s heavily affected.

But I was talking about Longbow WS.
Shade, instead, damages the boss thanks her melee weapon.

@Rebel

He dealt slightly less damage than BH

“Slightly” definition is subjective… I only see that, once again, Huntsman does less damage. They should nerf just BH and Shade (if they wanted). Huntsman should have remained untouched.

@Rebel

It deals very slightly less damage , and in a realistic scenario

• scenario A: you are good/lucky enough to score an headshot also during phase 3.

BH’s damage is higher because his ult does much more damage than 1 Emp Bow’s arrow (and during phase 3 the windows are so small that you can’t chain more attacks);

• scenario B: you can’t score headshots.

BH’s damage remains higher because Crossbow has more or less the same berserker damage as Emp Bow… but it can shoot without a delay, you don’t need to aim, it’s more versatile and mobile.
Moreover don’t forget that BH has Blessed Shot too. A free crit every 6 seconds.
A talent that fits very well vs a boss with small windows.

@Rebel

But you are efficient towards Nurgloth with longbow Huntsman. What career is more efficient than Huntsman?

BH, Shade, WS… all the other bosses killers.

@Rebel

No, please copy paste it

If you divide my posts in 1000 sections I can’t remember everything… I tried to do a summary to not lose to much time. If something misses, ask me.

@Rebel

And how well will BH do? Better than Huntsman you say? Again, Huntsman is sustained damage. And Huntsman is useless you say? He literally does 0 damage? He’s worse than any other career in the game at dealing damage to Nurgloth? You’re literally better off picking FK with s&s to deal boss damage? Or is HS actually comparable to BH, and under the best circumstances deals slightly less damage, is that it?

@Rebel

Oh, okay, so apparently BH will always get perfect headshots and burst him down no matter what according to you, but when Huntsman will use his ult then apparently he will only get bodyshots which allegedly do the same damage as a hagbane tick, sure. Apparently anything except headshots are completely useless and do nothing.

No, no, no… don’t get me wront and let’s not lengthen the discussion.

I said that during the first phase everyone can score headshots easily… so BH hasn’t problems to chain his ult.
During phase 3 the windows are very small and, more or less, you can shoot one only projectile… so BH does more damage using the ult than 1 Emp Bow’s arrow (see scenario A and B above).
HS can go invisible… but doing this the Lord follows another player. You can shoot only to his back. And without scoring headshots the damage is really, really poor.

@TmanDW

but that is only true under theoretical circumstances where they chain headshots, and that won’t happen in the mess of a melee that phase 3 is. HS actually has an edge there with his stealth ult.

But HS too needs to chain headshots.
During stealth the Lord follows another player, you can’t aim his head.

@Adelion

This is contradicting and I have covered this before. BH’s ult has a delay which makes scoring headshots with him in this phase near impossible. And he is vulnerable during the drawing animation which makes the usage itself a huge risk. And even IF he is hitting a bodyshot, the damage is pitiful.

Huntsman can go invisible and safely land shots and will have better chances at headshots since he can stand still. You can still land headshots from the back, more difficult but possible. That aside your assumption is based on a 180° turnaround. He will follow someone else, but that player may be 2 m away from you or in a 90 ° angle to you. You still have the chance to shot Nurgloth from the side or even the front. Your chances for headshots are exponentially higher with Huntsman.

This isn’t contradictory. Maybe I wrote wrong something (english is not my language).

• scenario A: you are good/lucky enough to score an headshot also during phase 3.

BH’s damage is higher because his ult does much more damage than 1 Emp Bow’s arrow (and during phase 3 the window is so small that you can’t chain more attacks);

• scenario B: you can’t score headshots.

BH’s damage remains higher because Crossbow has more or less the same berserker damage as Emp Bow… but it can shoot without a delay, you don’t need to aim, it’s more versatile and mobile.
Moreover don’t forget that BH has Blessed Shot too. A free crit every 6 seconds.
A talent that fits very well vs a boss with small windows.

@Adelion

It is an arbitary rule set by you.

?.. if I invest “point” to kill bosses, I should be efficient in my job, otherwise it’s just rng.
It’s like I played as shielded IB and sometimes enemies became immune to stagger.

[James]

There’s a lot of variables which makes it harder to determine DPS and compare between different builds/careers.
But I managed to compile a list of damage numbers and damage per second for each hitzone, if ult is up or not and whether Decanter/Concoction is used.

I compared a HS longbow build using One in the eye (Even when testing body shots)
A crit power Crossbow/Double shot BH build. (Open Wounds included)
Piercing Shot WS (Self explanatory).

---

Huntsman:

Empire Longbow (Body) DPS: 10.9
Empire Longbow (Head) DPS: 34.4

Empire Longbow (Body ULT) DPS: 59.4
Empire Longbow (Head ULT) DPS: 92

Empire Longbow (Body CONC ULT) DPS: 72.8 (5 seconds)
Empire Longbow (Head CONC ULT) DPS: 201.8 (5 seconds)

---

Bounty Hunter:

Crossbow (Body) DPS: 13
Crossbow (Head) DPS: 32.6

Double Shotted + Crossbow (Body) DPS: 39.8
Double Shotted + Crossbow (Head) DPS: 55.8

Double Shotted (Only) DPS: 23.9
Double Shotted + Concotion DPS: 219.2 (5 seconds)

---

Waystalker:

Piercing Shot DPS: 190.4
Piercing Shot + Drakira DPS: 224
Piercing Shot + Concotion DPS: 317.2 (5 seconds)
(Note: DPS didn’t increase with drakira when using concotion, atk speed capped)

---

There’s a lot of variables and certain things I didn’t test like full charge emp bow but I think this proves Empire Longbow has respectable, above average DPS and in my opinion a higher sustained DPS over BH (BH has a higher 5 second concoction DPS)

If it’s a matter of which is best overall, I think Huntsman is has the safest/most consistent time during this boss fight due to stealth and no all or nothing DPS talents like Double shotted or Piercing shot.

Which career has the highest theoretical DPS? WS for sure.

Which career has the highest realistic DPS? Probably a blunderbuss Huntsman.

---

All 3 careers perform well during the phases Nurgloth stays still.
Each career has some strengths and weaknesses.
Piercing shot and Double shotted are both all or nothing talents, one miss and a huge amount of your DPS is gone.
Piercing shot also means sacrificing a lot of ammo sustain for the rest of the level and losing literal aimbot.
On the other hand Huntsman has stealth, which means free shooting/immunity during the scythe phase, even on body shots the damage is respectable at least during ult.

I wont go into Shade because I briefly tested her already and the damage was almost laughable.
If you insist on running Shade for Nugloth EXQUISITE HUNTRESS + Longbow probably has higher DPS than actually going into melee.

[souI23]

As yourself said, bare numbers mean almost nothing.

The only “easy test” can be done during phase 1 (and maybe 2) where, as your videos show, HS’ damage is the lowest.

During phase 3, where you have only very small windows to shoot to the Lord, I quoted mysefl:

@souI23

• scenario A: you are good/lucky enough to score an headshot:

BH’s damage is higher because his ult does much more damage than 1 Emp Bow’s arrow (windows are too small, you can’t chain more attacks);

• scenario B: you can’t score headshots:

BH’s damage remains higher because Crossbow has more or less the same berserker damage as Emp Bow… but it can shoot without a delay, you don’t need to aim, it’s more versatile and mobile.
Moreover don’t forget that BH has Blessed Shot too. A free crit every 6 seconds.
A talent that fits very well vs a boss with small windows.

And, more or less, this is valid even if we replace BH with WS… similar ult (if you use piercing shot), similar weapon (more or less same damage as Emp Bow but more versatile, mobile, higher dps).

[KaelusVonSestiaf]

At this point I’m not sure if you’re a huntsman main doing insane mental gymnastics to justify why your main isn’t performing as well as he should, or someone who never played huntsman longbow.

I’ve got nothing else to say.

@TmanDW summed my thoughts up perfectly in this post

@TmanDW

The point that even though Huntsman does much less damage vs. Nurgloth than he does vs. some other single targets, he still does more damage than most other classes do

And @James provided the numbers to back that up.

Like I said from the first moment, Huntsman isn’t weak against this lord, and not only that, the damage cap isn’t hurting him the most, it’s hurting shade & bounty hunter the most. You will never get to chain enough headshots as BH or WS to outdps huntsman, who can just press F and shoot the guy in perfect comfort with his stealth and bonus damage.

@James, out of curiosity, what’s best dps with the huntsman longbow in this case, full charged bodyshots, no-charge bodyshots, or quickshot bodyshots? Provided you’re in the ult, at least.

[James]

I’d say quick shots. Assuming you’re running Concealed strikes (6 seconds of no break stealth)

I didn’t save my notes from last night so I have to check a lot of it again, but I know for sure Quick shots have the highest DPS.
They dealt more damage than medium shots for whatever reason while also having the highest fire-rate.

At least double the DPS of heavies I imagine.

With a higher rate of fire I imagine you’ll be hitting the head more too, even if it’s only one or two headshots within 10 shots, it’s a decent boost to DPS assuming you’re running Makin’ It look easy and crit chance. (Up to 45% chance to crit after a headshot until you crit)

[TmanDW]

Interesting. Probably a bug though. Assuming FS fixes it, and the damage is turned around or partially charged is brought up to scratch: What would be the best DPS then? Still quickshots or not?

[Rebel]

Honestly I don’t get it. There truly is no point in arguing, it’s just going in circles. It is actually impossible to convince someone of anything. I don’t get it… You could talk about the Earth being spherical and there’d be a damn argument, no matter how much evidence and proof there is.

[xscyther]

@James

I wont go into Shade because I briefly tested her already and the damage was almost laughable.
If you insist on running Shade for Nugloth EXQUISITE HUNTRESS + Longbow probably has higher DPS than actually going into melee.

Found this out the hard way

[souI23]

@KaelusVonSestiaf

At this point I’m not sure if you’re a huntsman main doing insane mental gymnastics to justify why your main isn’t performing as well as he should, or someone who never played huntsman longbow.

In reality I have played with every career and I did 100 victories challenges with 8 careers on 15… I’m not an HS main (probably, for example, I have played with BH more than him) but I know how to play. I have more or less 1500 hours and I completed every challenge (cata FoW, 120 weaves, cata final events’ challenges).
(at this point it would be interesting see how much time all these players, wich go against me, have spent with Huntsman)

It’s ok to have different opinions but I won’t never understand those posts that try to imagine who is the person behind the opinion.

Rather since I have played everything that I can notice when one career/talent/weapon is overshadowed… but for sure, personal opinion.

@KaelusVonSestiaf

Like I said from the first moment, Huntsman isn’t weak against this lord

I never said he’s weak, simple because I haven’t tested every career vs the Lord. I’m saying he does less damage than the other bosses killers.

@KaelusVonSestiaf

You will never get to chain enough headshots as BH or WS to outdps huntsman, who can just press F and shoot the guy in perfect comfort with his stealth and bonus damage.

About this, I already wrote the answer, read the above message.

[Rebel]

I’m sorry dude, but no one wants to argue with you. You live in your own reality at this point. Your argument that BH is a better boss killer than longbow Huntsman is that BH bodyshot ult does more damage than one longbow arrow, and apparently you can only shoot one longbow arrow during the third phase.

@souI23

BH’s damage is higher because his ult does much more damage than 1 Emp Bow’s arrow

You said Shade is better at doing damage when that was proven to be false.

@James

I wont go into Shade because I briefly tested her already and the damage was almost laughable.
If you insist on running Shade for Nugloth EXQUISITE HUNTRESS + Longbow probably has higher DPS than actually going into melee.

You say that Nurgloth affects Huntsman more than it does Shade and BH, when that is again, been proven to be false.
You say that WS far outdamages Huntsman, but don’t take into account that one miss and your ult is gone for a while, meaning a huge loss in DPS. Not to mention that WS doesn’t “far outdamage Huntsman” to begin with.
You say that Huntsman deals less damage, when under the best circumstances he deals like 10% less damage than BH, and under realistic circumstances shine over everyone else because he can ACTUALLLY SHOOT during the 3rd phase, the phase that ACTUALLY MATTERS. You completely disregard the fact that Huntsman can go invisible and shoot in peace, because apparently he can “only shoot one arrow” and that it does 0 damage. Nevermind the fact that you could easily shoot several fully charged arrows, and it’s been shown that the DPS is way higher by shooting QUICK shots. And it’s been calculated that Huntsman has the best bodyshot DPS not to mind on-par headshot DPS.

@souI23

The only “easy test” can be done during phase 1 (and maybe 2) where, as your videos show, HS’ damage is the lowest.

Yeah it’s 10% lower in the phases THAT DON’T MATTER. WE ALREADY WENT THROUGH THIS:

@Adelion

We are not discussing phase 1 and 2 as established at the beginning because they are so easy.

You do actually read and understand what we’re saying right? We’re saying, that the first 2 phases DON’T MATTER because IT’S NOT THE HARDEST PART. That and Huntsman again deals like 10% less damage in the best circumstances for landing headshots, and way better bodyshot damage, but apparently the damage is next to nothing according to your incredible research in comparison to James’s paltry little numbers.
You kept saying, over and over again, that Huntsman is useless, terrible, overshadowed, needs a buff, when that was PROVEN TO BE FALSE. IN EVERY CIRCUMSTANCE.

@souI23

Phase 3 is a totally RNG mess. You have few small and rare windows to fire.

YOU GO INVISIBLE. NOTHING IS AGGROED ON YOU. YOU CAN SHOOT WITH IMPUNITY. DOZENS OF QUICK SHOTS. NOT ONE.
I know I shouldn’t even be replying, but I honestly can’t help it. I’m being a d*ck about it but I have to say that you are actually delusional. It’s just a game, it doesn’t matter, you can think whatever you want, but just because it’s “your opinion” DOESN’T MEAN THAT YOU’RE SOMEHOW RIGHT. OPINIONS AREN’T EQUAL. YOU ARE LITERALLY WRONG.
I will actually never again reply to you. There is never any point. If you think Huntsman is overshadowed, then just don’t play him. If you think he’s so terrible and awful then just don’t. If he’s so extremely overshadowed.

[souI23]

@Rebel

I’m sorry dude, but no one wants to argue with you. You live in your own reality at this point. Your argument that BH is a better boss killer than longbow Huntsman is that BH bodyshot ult does more damage than one longbow arrow, and apparently you can only shoot one longbow arrow during the third phase.

So just stop to write.

@Rebel

You said Shade is better at doing damage when that was proven to be false.

I don’t agree.

@Rebel

You say that Nurgloth affects Huntsman more than it does Shade and BH, when that is again, been proven to be false.
You say that WS far outdamages Huntsman, but don’t take into account that one miss and your ult is gone for a while, meaning a huge loss in DPS. Not to mention that WS doesn’t “far outdamage Huntsman” to begin with.
You say that Huntsman deals less damage, when under the best circumstances he deals like 10% less damage than BH, and under realistic circumstances shine over everyone else because he can ACTUALLLY SHOOT during the 3rd phase, the phase that ACTUALLY MATTERS. You completely disregard the fact that Huntsman can go invisible and shoot in peace, because apparently he can “only shoot one arrow” and that it does 0 damage. Nevermind the fact that you could easily shoot several fully charged arrows, and it’s been shown that the DPS is way higher by shooting QUICK shots. And it’s been calculated that Huntsman has the best bodyshot DPS not to mind on-par headshot DPS.

You are distorting my words.

I simply said this:

The only “easy test” can be done during phase 1 (and maybe 2) where, as your videos show, HS’ damage is the lowest. It’s not the hardest part, but higher damage still helps.
During phase 3, where you have only very small windows to shoot to the Lord , I quoted mysefl:

• scenario A: you are good/lucky enough to score an headshot:

BH’s damage is higher because his ult does much more damage than 1 Emp Bow’s arrow (windows are too small, you can’t chain more attacks);

• scenario B: you can’t score headshots:

BH’s damage remains higher because Crossbow has more or less the same berserker damage as Emp Bow… but it can shoot without a delay, you don’t need to aim, it’s more versatile and mobile.
Moreover don’t forget that BH has Blessed Shot too. A free crit every 6 seconds.
A talent that fits very well vs a boss with small windows.
And, more or less, this is valid even if we replace BH with WS… similar ult (if you use piercing shot), similar weapon (more or less same damage as Emp Bow but more versatile, mobile, higher dps).

Sure, HS can go inv ands shoot some quick arrows bodyshot for 6 seconds… but it’s not enough to compensate the other disadvantages.

About the other points, I already answered.

[Argonaut14]

At this point, I think he might actually be trolling us.

[kuli]

This thread comes down to one unreflective Huntsman main being butthurt, lmao.

[quickkill]

Need to tune down the frequency of fly swarms or reduce the duration of being disabled.

[quickkill]

The one boss where HM and WS are actually better than Shade lol. Not that I am complaining.

[SmokerT69]

Gotta say, I love this boss. It’s got a real RPG feel to it, with the disables, ground AoE’s to dodge and switching to different forms during the fight. Reminds me a Final Fantasy boss I haven’t beat it on Cata yet, but I 2 manned it with a random QP guy on Legend. Not to mention people are beating it with Bots. The armour class is fine and I’m glad we finally got a zerker boss.

I really hope future bosses get this same treatment. The other bosses feel kinda lame now compared to this big bad guy.

[dieaready]

I think the biggest issue is saying that longbow huntsman is being useless on this map when longbow huntsman’s main job is not boss kill but elite clear. Longbow huntsman is still pretty good up till the boss stage, then he does average at it. If you want to make arguments about how an anti-boss build is nerfed to uselessness in a map, you’ve basically picked the wrong career.

[James]

Hey handsome.
Yeah, I don’t see a problem with Longbow Huntsman, it’s far from useless.
I would say far above average, relative to most other careers and from testing deals more sustained damage than a “boss killer” shade.

If we’re talking solely boss killing, a Bluntsman shreds Nurgloth while also having an easier and safer time than a piercing shot WS. (Stealth and less of a reliance on headshots)
Hunter Repeater + Just Reward BH seems like pretty good/consistent DPS too.

[Khakipants]

You’re preaching to the choir. People here like a hard boss and I like that he’s different too. But the problem is that you want to avoid a scenario where people just suicide in QP. Unfortunately, you can’t please both groups of people.

The absolute easiest way out is to just blame the players for doing it. But are they really opposed to a challenge? Or is it the fact that the game is built around grinding for loot? You only gain a modicum of exp if you lose a level and nothing else. Losing a round is literally a complete waste of time for everyone involved, loot-wise. And if you’re a player who’s squandered with time to play games in real life then you’ll be so turned off you might just give up on the game entirely.

(How many friends do I have that aren’t interested in the game (anymore) because of the serious grind?)

It feels to me that the majority of players on this forum have hundreds upon hundreds of hours, if not and probably a thousand or several (likely spread out on both titles), who have lost perspective on this kind of grind and how crushing it is. Moreover, you also thirst for a challenge, which is fair enough, but I’ve argued with people who didn’t struggle whatsoever with the boss on Legend and Cata while playing with randoms. This just does not reflect the average player whatsoever. Very few people are actually so good they can clutch every game with pubs.

[Rebel]

@Khakipants

But the problem is that you want to avoid a scenario where people just suicide in QP.

No, I have straight up said that I don’t care in the slightest if people suicide on map beginning.

@Khakipants

he game is built around grinding for loot?

How exactly? Loot in this game is so completely negligible that I will never understand why anyone ever says this game is about grinding loot. You reach level 35 in like 20 hours. You get showered with chests at the beginning, you can reach max power level in like 60 hours. After that you can get reds which are on average slightly better than oranges, and you can literally just craft oranges whenever you want. Loot is so extremely pointless in this game. There’s no cool rare items, no unique properties or traits to get, no epic skins, just get to power level 300 items and you’re set. Getting oranges is literally the exact same thing as getting greens, you can craft and upgrade any item you want from scratch. So why do people keep saying that this game is about grinding? I’ll never understand. But this is off-topic.