Can we get rid of +20% health and +33% curse resistance already?

Warhammer: Vermintide 2 Feedback
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Well FS took some steps towards solving some of the issues mentioned at least afaik. For example the temp health talents are now available on either Lvl 5 or 10 which makes a ton of difference. Also they are reworking stagger so some block related traits are hopefully finally becoming interesting.

However I really like the idea of CR scaling with difficulty and dropping it as a property. I remember when I started playing I had no idea what CR meant and I kept dying on my group of friends when we made book runs. Finally somone told me but it felt really bad being in the dark on that topic and having the feeling that you just suck, when in fact the game just didn’t communicate its mechanics properly.

Allthough I dont see why the +HT one should be dropped as well. There are enough builds that generate so much Temp HP that the extra HT is not too much of a problem and you can easily swap it for something else.

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Well, I mean +20% health is a better pick and a compulsory pick for many classes. Here’s my reasoning.

  1. Zealot needs +20% health because it gives him a free extra stack of Fiery Faith

  2. 100 hp classes need +20% health because it’ll take them out of one-shot range for many attacks if they have full health and no form of passive damage resistance.

  3. Higher HP tanks with innate damage resistance get better mileage out of +20% health because it gets compounded with their higher health pool and damage reduction.

  4. If you’re generating a lot of Temp HP, you get even more health because you have a larger health buffer from +20% health. The moving of temp HP to level 5 exacerbates this problem by making temp HP even more central to builds from the get go.

  5. If you’re a newer player who isn’t confident in your ability to dodge and block, +20% health is the simplest buff that always will give you benefits out of all the properties on a necklace.

  6. If you play quickplay and you plan on playing with any amount of latency, things like block cost reduction, block angle, and stamina will not help you soak up stupid hits from lag like +20% health does. This game’s netcode is abysmal.

  7. +20% health is flat-out better than all the damage reduction vs X properties that only give 10% max and only apply in some cases.

So, if you’re at a point where you feel like none of the above applies and you don’t ever get hit, then you don’t need +20% health. Even then, as an experienced player, I don’t feel like I ever get the same utility out of things like I do +20% health. It’s ridiculously better. I see plenty of people saying that they don’t feel like they need the crutches of Curse Resistance or Health, which is missing the point.

It’s weird that this crutch is only available to people who have grinded for it. The people who have a diverse set of red trinkets and necklaces to choose from to swap out Curse Resistance or Health are the people who probably don’t need the two properties. They basically boil down to a “+40% effective HP if you got lucky with loot”. They’re poorly designed and I think they should go.

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instead of getting rid off it, why not make rest equally good pick

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The easiest way to do that is, surprise, surprise, tweaking the outlier, rather than all the ones that are already at a similar level; i. e. Extra Health and CR instead of all the others.

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Because it’s easier to change 2 properties instead of changing the 12 properties that you can pick instead of curse resistance and +20% health.

Also, that’d just make it even more annoying to craft, reroll, and experiment with every single combination of properties. Unless they’re planning on their crafting rework at the same time.

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Thats not gonna help all others, its just gonna be what is least bad than making it better

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I dont understand what you said, so I’ll just assume you’re confused and I think you should just reread the original post and form your thought more clearly. Sorry.

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Yea, I feel like I got similar chances :smile: But still, I think I will somewhat continue with my anti-stagger-seasons-fixedweaves campaign till WOM hits the official realm and if I then try it out and see that the stuff is not fixed, than it will just break me, I will provide some final cry-rant and take a break :joy:

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I think it’s important to not just do the rants about things but to also suggest alternatives, even if the effort seems fruitless. A little bit of rant to show passion is still good to mix in with the idea posts.

At this point, I’ve basically given up on Fatshark actually reading the threads themselves and plucking ideas from the forums. I don’t see them react to anything on the forum except to say “well we understand you’re upset but we’re doing this anyway, here’s a laundry list of design decisions that we made in the waterfall design document about stagger and Weaves”. They don’t seem agile where they can switch priorities fast or proactively fix little things in smaller, regular patches.

The glimmer of hope I have is that someone on Fatshark somehow reads these threads and the idea will come to mind several months later in a meeting, long after they forgot about the post and they’ll maybe sneak in some of my ideas in their gigantic 2020 patch where they rework talents for the fifth time and add a new stumble mechanic and a row of talents revolving around stumble with the new level cap at 40. Also that new 2020 patch adds two new maps from Vermintide 1 for $10.

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My theory is that there is someone calling the shots and that guy can’t see the obvious stuff that is wrong or stuff that needs fixing and being prioritized and then @Fatshark_Hedge and others here on forums can’t do anything about it aside for saying something like “Yes, we read it all, thank you for your feedback”

I might be wrong, but I’m not sure if me being completely wrong about this would even be good, because what other better explanation would be there ?

I’m thinking about this for quite some time, because some of the decisions being made are so weird and easily fixable things are not being fixed at all.

It would be so cool if I could access some parallel universe where some FS guy decided to be 100% transparent and explain why all the obvious stuff is not being fixed/reworked, why they are pushing more grindy slog, why fixed weaves when FoW showed that it’s dead content very soon… why seasons as horrible band-aid for fixed format of weaves instead just easy fix - randomized weaves that most players want etc.

There is so much stuff that doesn’t make sense and it’s not just that it doesn’t make sense to me, it doesn’t make sense to most players I talk to. :frowning:

I really think this game could be 10x better if they were much more transparent and actually focused on requested stuff and fixing core problems.

And if I was in their position and had limited resources, I would use players much much more, there is obviously lots of very passionate people who would be happy to “waste” their time and come up with solutions to some of current problems.

For example the thing this whole thread is about, traits & attributes, those kinda suck and it’s core issue, for a long time! I’m sure not noob and I run attackspeed/crit/swiftslaying , stamina/hp , crit/curseres nearly on all classes I play, because those stats are so much better than everything else in most cases, crit is just must to proc SS and attack speed also because slow attacks => feels like crap to play and you get rekt, because you can’t react fast enough. This would not be hard to fix. And if they don’t have time for that, then they could provide tools/mod for players to tweaks those things on modded realm and test it themselves for example. And than just provide some final idea that devs could check out and decide if they want to implement it or not.

Perfect example of this, being me screwing around with the postprocessing… even tho the mod Skacik made is so hard to work with, because there are no sliders (so I don’t know ranges) and I look from perspective of character instead of being in map editor, and I knew nothing about it… I did get some nice lighting and had lots of fun with it. I could easily create lighting for events like Khorne in map editor on free Sunday. And the event would be so much more immersive. ( https://youtu.be/krIqweRbGIE?t=35 this is an example, but it was just too dark after youtube encoding magic, but I had a blast playing this )

I’m not saying this is some great idea, but if they have resources, then damn it, they should fix core stuff, and deed crafting, and other things and if they don’t, then why not use players to help with this.

ps: This was super fun, the Trippytide : https://youtu.be/ZkJ-BL-xYYY?t=62 , but I started seeing other limitations the mod had. I could not adjust particle amounts for specific effects, I could only increase or decrease them globally which sucks… for example in this vid there is Chaos Spawn and you can see particle effects around him and when he is attacking, it’s awesome, but there are also other particle effects that are way overtuned because of that. But still it was funny.

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Agreed. I only ever run other properties if I need specific breakpoints (mainly ranged) and even then it’s always 1x or 2x: Power vs Infantry + Power vs Chaos, or 2x: Power vs Armoured + Power vs Skaven. Power vs Berserkers or Power vs Monsters doesn’t even cross my mind.

Depending on how it is with the new stagger system/Cataclysm I might even drop those if I can’t get any meaningful, regular breakpoints and that means running even more Attack Speed/Crit builds. So even less variety.

Other than that: at most I switch out stamina for block cost reduction on high stamina weapons (that don’t have absolutely amazing push attacks). I don’t run stamina regen as I tend to be good using a combination of pushes and dodges to make breathing room (having 3 stam at least is already perfect), and I’m utterly allergic to any of that accursed movement speed stat so I don’t take that either.

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This is by far one of the scariest things for me about the stagger update. It already seems like Attack Speed + Crit Chance + Swift Slaying is at a 99% pick rate. I know that’s probably what I’m rolling with on all of the new weapons except for throwing axes which will have Conservative Shooter because it’s the only one that’s not a melee weapon. I’m really concerned that it’s going to make the problem even worse with properties.

And I think that’s great that you don’t like some of the properties and you won’t pick them because of personal preference. I actually kinda dig movement speed just to run laps around everything as Slayer, although I was mainly picking that in the Weaves where Curse Resistance didn’t matter and movement speed was cheaper to get than everything else.

And I’m thinking about all the possible combinations people could have individually on their necklaces if +20% health wasn’t a thing.

  1. Hate Blightstormers? Resist Chaos + Resist AoE

  2. Hate gas rats? Resist Skaven + Resist AoE

  3. Equally hate everything? Resist Skaven + Resist Chaos (no clue if this is even possible, but it’s weird that these two together are still worse than +20% health alone)

  4. Tank with high block? Block Cost Reduction + Push/block angle

  5. Low stamina, tiny weapon? Stamina + Block cost reduction

  6. Tank who doesn’t want to die to unblockable damage? Block cost reduction + Resist AoE

Trinkets still have the elephant in the room that is crit chance to complement Swift Slaying, but cooldown reduction, movement speed, stamina recovery, and revive speed are all pretty interesting. I see a lot of their pick rates down to personal preference, what class you’re playing, or what weapon you’re using. There’s no right answer (except that Crit Chance is one of the properties, which is a separate thread).

Respawn speed still kinda sucks though, unless you die a lot lol.

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Part of the problem there is the reduced damage from x properties are still underwhelming, I’d take BCR/stam or block angle over those any day as those work into active gameplay in the forms of blocking and pushing, which mitigate 100% damage.

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I agree. Baby steps, though, I think. Can’t ask Fatshark to fix everything at once.

The damage reduction properties could be balanced a little more, I think, by having a variable slotting cost to properties like in the Weaves.

On the “Trinket” in the Amulet of Ashur menu, 5% crit chance required you to take 5 slots of 1% crit chance for a total cost of 150 mastery points.

For 5% movement speed, it only took 1 slot and 50 mastery points. I actually took movement speed a lot in the Weaves.

I could imagine a crafting rework that resembled this system would expand upon that idea. Lackluster properties and traits in general would just cost less to have, if we can’t find a perfect balance in utility otherwise.

I’m gonna try and write that idea down in another thread for an item system rework. Stand by for another essay post later today.

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