Zealot Needs a Rework, and Here's one Proposed Solution

Preface
So I would like to start by clarifying that I by no means assume myself to be an expert in balancing. In fact, in recognition of the lack of justice I could do towards the mathematical balancing of the game, I’m not even going to try. Instead, I’d like to illustrate my point by describing what I think the Zealot class’s current problems are, what is causing those issues, and what can be done to “fix” those weak areas. Don’t be fooled. Just because I’m not reviewing numbers here doesn’t mean that this isn’t a thorough breakdown. There’s a lot of info here. If you are looking for qualifications on my part, I can say that Dakrtide is my most played game, with 1,500 Hours. Of my accounts 1,111 Levels, 667 of them are on Zealot. and that I am a regular player of Damnation (Tier 5) Auric and while I’m not much of a Havoc player on account of being a Solo Queuer, I have clawed my way up to Havoc Clearance 22. I recognize that this may not be impressive for to a number of people, but the point is to give context to my level of familiarity w/ the class. So lets begin.

Defining the Problem
Zealot has an identity problem. Not one caused by not knowing what it wants to be, but instead by being too rigid in how it achieves its fantasy. This isn’t exactly the classes fault though. The Zealot has the oldest class tree in the game, and it’s received no major structural reworks. This lack of update has created two specific issues in the Zealot’s Tree. The first is in regards to content. As the other classes have been reworked, in addition to the typical multipliers, they’ve received utility option to help encourage a certain style of play. While the Zealot’s tree is not devoid of these options, what little is there is under valued either due to how weak the effect is or because of the second problem: the structure of the Class Tree.

Firstly, you could divide the Tree based on its specializations. The fantasies that the Zealot’s Class Tree are supposed to represent can be understood as 1: “The Miraculous Martyr”, 2: “The Sainted Gunslinger”, and 3: “The Avenging Apostle”. Or in other words, an “Unyielding” Zealot, a “Gun” Zealot, and an “Assassin” Zealot.


If you’re looking at this and noticing a problem, trust, we’re getting there.

Secondly, the tree can be broken down into four sections based on Purpose. The top set of nodes determine the Damage Source of your build, the next set the source of your Sustain, then your “Zeal” or flare (which is just your class ability) , and the last set represent your “Mission” (which is your touchstone and other nodes that help influence the playstyle of your build). The Zealot actually has an almost elegant, if a slightly too committal class tree.

But there in lies the problem. If the Zealot tree was actually divided like this, it would make the class significantly better than it actually is. Not perfect. Just better. But instead, the reality of the situation is that the Structure of the Zealot’s tree is a lot worse.

Identifying the Weakpoints
The structure of the Zealot’s tree is far messier than either suggested breakdown. If you divided by fantasy/specialization, the class actually looks something like this:

And if you were to divided by Purpose, it would look more like this:

The actual structure of the class’s tree is largely fine, but the way the nodes have been divided and the fact that almost all the nodes are raw multipliers w/ no utility make it very hard to gain value going down certain paths. If you look at a lot of higher level play and the builds that get suggested for the class for high level Havoc, you’ll find that a vast majority of builds use the Backastabber, Scourge, Enduring Faith, Second Wind, Dance of Death, Thy Wrath be Swift, Good Balance, Duelist, Until Death, and Holy Revenant:


These 10 Passives represent only a third of the Zealot’s Build, but because of the structure of the Class Tree, this actually ends up costing the Zealot 16 Talent Points, or over half of their build. And these 10 Blessing are practically mandatory at higher levels play, because no other path will net you as much damage damage and sustain. Because you have to commit so many points to get what you want, there’s not enough points left over to grab your touchstone and grab more than a couple modifying nodes. So every build largely feels the same because any build using these nodes is basically half related. So how do we fix this:

Proposing Solutions
From the fact that one third of the Zealot’s tree is focused on being away from the team, and another third is meant to give you immense survivability, we can presume that Zealot is meant to wander away from the team. Interactions telling you to get back act as the perfect way to warn the player about overextending. And based upon the fact that Fatshark has previously stated their desire deemphasized the Zealot’s boss killing abilities, we can assume that Zealot class is one that is meant to have enough survivability to separate from the team and pick fights with Specialist/Elites but not necessarily bosses. So how do we actually get the class there?

Firstly, we need to separate the nodes based upon what specialization of the tree they belong to and what purpose they serve. I’ll try to highlight why these passives “belong” to each tree and purpose as we continue.

Starting with the “The Avenging Apostle” aka the “Assassin” Zealot. The Assassin 's damage nodes are: Backstabber, Purge the Unclean, Disdain, Duelist, Desperation, Sustained Assault, and Blades of Faith. Their only Sustain nodes are Blood Redemption, Vicious Offering, Enemies Within/Without and Loner. But keep in mind, you don’t need a lot of sustain generation if you plan on being invisible, because no one is going to attack you, and if you’re away from the team with Loner, you’re more likely to be surrounded by enemies instead of peers. Additionally, all of the damage nodes increase the base damage of your attacks, which is important when that damage is going to be modified by Blades of Faith or Shroudfield, Assassin’s Class Ability. Finally, for Playstyle, the Assassin’s nodes and touchstone are The Master’s Retribution (as a tool to keep the Assassin safe when they aren’t cloaked) and…Martyrdom? Don’t worry; we’ll put a pin in this.

Next is the “The Miraculous Martyr” aka the “Unyielding” Zealot. The Unyielding’s damage nodes are Scourge, Grievous Wounds, Hammer of Faith, Punishment, and Immolation Grenades. The Unyielding’s Sustain nodes are Enduring Faith, Restoring Faith, Bleed for the Emperor, Thy Wrath Be Swift, Until Death, Holy Revenant, and Beacon of Purity. All of these nodes act to mitigate the effects of damage taken. In fact, Scourge paired with Enduring Faith is the current Meta sustain options. If you Pair this w/ Fury of the Faithful (another meta pick), not only do you have incredibly efficient toughness, but if it’s low or broken you can immediately regenerate it. For Playstyle it’s Blazing Piety, as the increased crit rate will feed back into their damage and sustainability. We can stick a pin in this as well, making note of Stalwart, Infectious Zeal, Pious Cut-Throat, and Invocation of Death.

And then there’s the easiest to justify, “The Sainted Gunslinger” aka the “Gun” Zealot, Saint’s Damage Nodes are Anoint in Blood, The Emperor’s Bullet, Dance of Death, and Ambuscade. Their Sustain Nodes are Second Wind, Fortitude in Fellowship, Voice of Terra, Good Balance, Benediction, and Swift Certainty. Saint is supposed to be like a rambling mad preacher, running into the line of fire with holy book and hot lead. Their sustain is passive, based on them running around and automatically dodging, like a bullet conveniently getting lodge on a holy symbol instead of hitting its mark. If the Zealot is a melee specialist, and we know from nodes like Loner and Purge the Unclean that the Zealot is supposed to not always be w/ the team, then Saint gives up some of that melee specialization for increased range, having reduced self sustainability but greater team support. The Saint’s Class Ability is Chorus, which act a lot like a Pistol Preacher belting a sermon that inspires allies and makes foes repel. And then Playstyle is Inexorable Judgement for running and gunning, Unremitting and Sainted Gunslinger.

These aren’t all Zealot’s nodes, but the ones left out are far more generalist in nature, and are in theory just kind of useful for any variant of the Class’s builds to have.

In regards to our held points, Martyrdom shouldn’t give increased melee damage for each missing wound but increased Critical Chance. Something like 2.5 Stacking up to 6 times would give you the same bonus that Blazing Piety has now (15%) and you would actually be able to benefit from the full affect unlike current Zealot and Martyrdom. This would actually feed back into the benefit of Scourge and Enduring Faith, as the lower health you got, the more you would crit, the more likely you are to proc Enduring Faith.

Meanwhile, Blazing Piety might work better as Bloody Piety, counting the number of something like bleed stacks (or just stacks of negative modifiers like Bleed, Fire, Rending, and Brittleness) you apply and giving you a fury state that provided increased melee damage (50%-60% for a few seconds would be semi comparable to Martyrdoms theoretical max of 56%) for a limited amount of time. Ultimately, the point of this is to give the class an period of enhanced damage but ensure it has a limited window. By tying it to some kind of Negative Stacks the Player Applies instead of just kills around them, they have far more control over it when it pops, unlike current Blazing Piety. If you gave this a short cooldown before it could activate again it would also mean that the Zealot’s ability to keep the Buff up would be directly tied to their aggression, as they would need to apply enough stack of debuffs before the timer ran down.

Fury Rising could be retooled and paired w/ Stalwart, to give you extra defense while in Fury and a way to increase how long you’re in the state (Crit Hits being counted as a Part of your Stack or alternatively prolonging the duration).
Righteous Warrior and Infectious Zeal could be paired and given to Crit Martyrdom. This would let players decide between consistent guaranteed survivability w/ I Shall Not Fall and Maniac, versus team empowerment and High Crit Chance from going with Righteous Warrior and Infectious Zeal.

Inexorable Judgment can also be retuned to Increase Melee and Range Attack Speed and Strength. It’s my understanding that Strength affects weapon Damage, Impact, and Cleave, so doing this would presumably allow your first few shots to penetrate through any chaff and deal a big wallop of damage with the bonus that anything that survives is going to get knocked on its but.

Pious Cut-Throat and Invocation of Death can both become Ability Modifiers specifically for Fury of the Faithful. Invocation of Death could be mutual exclusive option between Redoubled Zeal, allowing you to pick between a consistent 2 charges or one charge that can quickly be gained through crits. Pious Cut-Throat becomes a shared connecting modifier, allowing Fury of the Faithful to get bonuses for Backstabs, which would help tie the class ability back to other branches.

And finally, Martyr’s Purpose can be retooled increase Ability and Blessing Duration by, say, 2% for every point of health damage taken and 1% for every point of toughness damage taken to a max of 100% (for the sake of ease) since the last time the blessing or ability was triggered. That means Shroudfield could potentially last 10 Seconds, and Uncanny Strike could last 7. It should be clear that toughness damage contributes to this, as something that helps keep the Zealot empowered would would also help keep them safe when their away from the team and willing to aggress groups of specialist/elites.

So what would that leave you with? Well, you would have a Pure Saint that obviously favored guns. This could very easily make Blessings like Run and Gun, Crucian Roulette, Point Blank, Speed Load, and Trickshot more viable. Having shots with a tight spread, even when you’re running or up close to an enemy, combined with the extra damage, impact, and cleave of a strength bonus means that you can hit harder while still remaining mobile. It might even make the Vigilant Autogun worth while as you could run to an angle, ignore lesser enemies around you enemies, and take a shot at a problematic priority target. This branch of the Zealots tree would have to play fairly close to the team to be effective, but Stunbomb and their ability to rush and gun down a problem before it gets to the team. And if they are ever out of position, or a problem approaches the team from afar, they have Chorus to save themselves and restore Morale to the team.

A Pure Apostle build would favor weapons like the dueling sword, combat knife, and tactical axe, for things like high base finesse, penetration, and critical mod. Having high, for all intents and purpose, Armor Pen means those weapons will be naturally well suited for dealing with armored enemies, but their short range and low cleave means that their less suited to take on big groups, so players would want to pick their fights well. Increased attack speed will let those weapons get more fully charged heavy attacks off while their bonuses are up. This variant of the Zealot could play the furthest from the tea, due to their lack of agro draw (Shroudfield), but in return it would demand smart play as all of it’s survivability is predicated on picking the right fights and securing the kill.

A Pure Martyr build will instead lean on weapons like the Eviscerator, Devils Claw, and Crusher. Weapons that can brutally cut through chaff to bully the elites hiding behind them. Being able to effectively trade attacks into groups of enemies and knock them down so you can beat on their heads is engaging in the most primal sense. What this build lack in damage, it makes up for in control. Getting tons of crits to augment their survivability, damage, and cleave. And with high impact, even if Invocation of Death or Enduring Faith only count one Crit per attack action, the Martyr will still have some relative safety due to their targets getting knocked to the floor momentarily. Fury of the Faithful isn’t just an aggression tool but a survivability one as well. It lets the Zealot push ahead into a fight or back through a horde when things get too hot. Dancing in and out of safety. This build of the Zealot is in-between Sainted Gunslinger and Avenging Apostle in terms of how far out it can play from the team. Having toughness get more efficient on crit but not necessarily recovering it means that too long away from the team will leave you weakened.

This even works well in regards to mixing and Matching. Take the Martyr’s Damage and the Apostle’s Sustain? You have a build that Favors weapons like Chain Axe and Relic Blade. Weapons that are less capable at controlling entire groups of elites but higher damage dealing. This build is the true duelist, wanting to weave in and out of the fray. The fact that these weapons mulch walkers keeps the build sustained between bigger encounters.

Mix Apostle’s Damage and Martyr’s Sustain? Heavy Sword and Thunder Hammer shines. These weapons are slower, and when fighting large groups you’re bound to get hit, but your using cleavers and mallets. The raw damage output of these weapons is making it a bad trade for whoever’s on the opposite side. You’re like an unrelenting force. You want to aim for weakspots and secure the initial kill, because doing so will let you chop through more or leave the enemy reeling for longer.

Apostle or Martyr’s damage mixed with Saint’s sustain? Shock Mauls and Chainswords will get a kick out of that. Pummeling and knocking enemies around in a flurry of blows or slashing through them with reckless abandon. This build is like a little goblin running around the map. moving faster than any enemy can punish. They can’t stand against big groups but they can run through and around them all without getting chipped.

And while using the Saint’s damage nodes will automatically push your build towards ranged attacks, being able to pick between a commando w/ no time to bleed (High Impact and Critical Chance Firearms that Knock enemies back and away before they can reach, ignore the attacks of the ones that do with Thy Wrath be Swift, and increase your toughness from your volley of critical attack with Enduring Faith), a sneaky ambusher with a slug round surprise (Raw Damage nodes, Invisibility, and a Sneaky Angle. This should be pretty self explanatory.), or the classic run and gunner sounds really engaging.

All together, that might look something like this:

This isn’t perfect, but I think it’s a huge improvement. It retains the structure and general level of commitment that Zealot has always had. I didn’t modify the touchstones at all, but honestly, I think that, were you to improve the general balance of this, you could remove nine of Operative Modifiers in total. The zealot has the fewest total nodes so they could use more impactful options. You were take 4 of the Operative modifiers, replace them with two additional options for Martyrdom and Inexorable Judgment, and then take 5 more, bring them to the same area that Martyrs Purpose, and then give each branch two floating Ability, Blitz, or even an Aura Modifiers. With this structure, you can specialize wholly into one of the branches of the Class Tree, and you’d still have 7 Talent Points left to spend. I honestly think you could add a few additional modification nodes on top of this to give players more meaningful options.

So, would this fix Zealot? In my personal opinion, yes and no. Remember, I said that the Zealot’s Class Tree had two problems. All of this has just been us addressing the structure of the class, but remember, my other statement was:

The first is in regards to content. As the other classes have been reworked, in addition to the typical multipliers, they’ve received utility option to help encourage a certain style of play. While the Zealot’s tree is not devoid of these options, what little is there is under valued…

Even after this restructuring, there are just some nodes that I don’t have a lot of confidence in. The Gunslinger Branch is a prime example. While Attack Speed and Strength are both great, there’s not any kind of ammo efficiency to make relying on your firearm a worthwhile prospect. It only gets worse when you take into consideration how it might fare against armor. In how Havoc is currently balanced, you would be wasting your ammo. Without a way to Miraculously Recover your Magazine, there’s no real reason to build for your firearm. Worse, most of the gunslinger damage nodes don’t really play nicely unless you are explicitly using range attack, so there’s not even much reason to cross build into it. The Sustain Options are their most viable nodes, since everyone should eventually dodge. To be viable, Gunslinger’s Damage Nodes would need to find a way to give them Strength (Impact, Damage, and Penetration), Ammo Efficiency, Weapon Stability, and Weapon Handling in addition to Attack Speed. Kind of a tall order but not impossible.

The Arbites class is getting the Rapid Movement Passive, and that makes me think of all the Zealot gameplay skills you could legitimate. A Passive Similar to Rapid Movement, maybe something that regenerates Stamina and Increase Strength, could legitimate the Zealot “Crackhead Run”. Run while using the charge heavy and then slide at the end to go insanely fast, but now when you do it your recharging stamina to keep running and doing it into an enemy gives you a new way to aggress, weather that be with the Knife, Dueling Sword, Tactical Axe, or eve Guns. Running at an Enemy w/ Run and Gun before sliding into them and blasting them away sounds exactly like a Zealot.

You could legitimize the Zealot’s Stealth Double Stab. Right now, Shroudfield makes you pick between theoretical safety/utility or damage but this choice doesn’t really matter when you’ll uncloak your first attack regardless. Switch around Shroudfield’s base form to have it’s Original Movement Speed Bonus, but Perfectionist’s +50% Finesse and Backstab damage, the 5 Seconds from Master Crafted, and the Toughness Regeneration and Damage Reduction from Invigorating Revelation. You can cut the cooldown of Shroudfield to 20 seconds. Now, you make it so Perfectionist gives you the +100% Finesse/Backstab Damage and Critical Chance with a 100% cooldown increase (40 Seconds in total). Meanwhile Master-Crafted Shroudfield lets you make +1 Additional Attacks from Stealth. I recognize that some people wouldn’t be happy with what used to be as tech input becoming a base mechanic, but there in lies the best part. If you don’t change how Shroudfield actually functions, skilled players could still Double Stab, meaning that for skilled players, Master-Crafted Shroudfield is actually a Triple Stab. And Invigorating Revelation? +1 Attacks without breaking stealth, to give Perfectionist Players a taste of the Double Stab and skilled Master-Crafted Player the insanity of Quadruple Stab.

Loner is still underwhelming and I think it could be improved by letting you count as being in coherency with your two closest allies so you could still benefit from their auras or alternatively allowing you to get half the benefit of the Aura of your teammates. Chalk it up to being “With them in Spirit”.

Bite the bullet and integrate some kind of bonus in regards to firearms to Fury of the Faithful. Something like Bullet Impact and Penetration (but not damage) would be great, letting you rush forward and shoot through Obstacles.

I really do think Righteous Warrior and Infectious Zeal would be great on a Crit Focused Version of Martyrdom, but as for Piety and Judgment, I believe that making Piety users choose between increased Survivability or a way to prolong the duration is the right call. Menawhile, for Judgment, Retributor’s Stance and Inebriate’s Poise, which is almost something. Making the Zealot choose between Run and Gun or Spray and Pray is a cool dynamic. Maybe giving Retributor’s side something that makes them count as blocking when ADSing could help reinforce that dynamic. Then on Inebriate’s side, the could have something that lets them ADS while Sprinting could work. It helps reinforce Run and Gun without actually stepping on the Blessing’s toes.

Speaking of Crits though, ideally a Zealot should be able to cut through Infested enemies easily, especially with a massive Crit boost. That’s why I think Purge the Unclean should also be slightly altered. The Ogryn is finally in a relatively healthy place, with a distinct Role in the team, but currently Purge the Unclean overlaps with some of targets the Ogryn will want to face in their newly defined position as Monstrosity Masher. While this overlap isn’t inherently bad, giving Zealots a greater emphasis on their own enemies to target will help them feel more distinct while also complimenting their place in the team composition. I would instead suggest 20% Bonus Damage to Unyielding and Maniacs, it would retain Zealots ability to help punish Unyielding enemies or even take them down themselves while giving them a more important target to keep of the Ogryns back while they fought bosses.

Maniacs include Dreg Ragers of course, but that’s also Flamers, Trappers, and Mutants. All excelent targets for a Zealot to Hunt Down. I can’t say for sure that Zealot would be fine without the bonus damage to Infested enemies, but that might speak more to to a need for buffs to the blessing on their weapons that should help cut through that. With better access to nodes that will increase the impact of their attacks, Zealots should at least eb able to know away hoards where Blessings like Perfect Strike, Rampage, Shred, Bladed Momentum, and Chained Deathblow might fail.

And Generally I think that the class could benefit from more node options that reinforce their movement, aggression, and melee prowess. Despite being a melee class, and having access to weapons that emphasis perfect blocks and parries, the zealot doesn’t have any nodes that enhance their defensive melee skills.

I could point out each and every node that I think would need to be adjusted, but the point of this post was to try and help the community produce a clearer idea of what Zealot could look like. A Close Range Elite/Specialist Hunter w/ enough survivability to to rush out and meet them on their own ground, dispatch them, and still make it back to the team in time to help with the horde.

Closing Thoughts
The thing that inspired me to put this together was a combination of how bored I’d begun feeling while playing my main, Zealot, how excited I am for Arbites, and how worried I am that the former is largely going to be made irrelevant by the latter. Even if the class is still effective, it lacks enough variety in the tools and options it has at its disposal. And with what I’ve seen of Arbites, I imagine the class is going to be very good and controlling close range space in a way that mitigates the impact of the Zealot.
The way the community talks about Darktide is largely based upon the meta and balance of the game. When I hear people break down the different roles of needed at high level (Boss Damage, Horde Clear, Elite/Special Targeting, Defense/Support). I’ve seen people determine that Vets are Elite/Specialist Snipers, and that Ogryn’s are Boss Damage, and Psykers are Horde Clear. But the position given to Zealot always seems off. I’ve heard some suggestions that the role is “Stability”, because of the Zealots survivability. Other’s have suggested that the Zealot is, like, a secondary Boss Damage. But I think the reality of the situation is that both Veteran and Zealot are meant to be Elite/Specialist hunters. Vets take on Snipers, Gunners, and Bombers. Zealot takes on Shotgunners, Ragers, and Maulers. Both fight Flamers and Disablers. I believe that the language doesn’t currently line up with that expectation due to a lack of real options. Instead, Veteran has been elevated to a glorified point and click position, and Zealots are Strong but unfocused.

Other little things I want to get out before Arbites releases:
If you make it so that the Parry can take a number of additional attacks based upon strength, this will improve their usability since you won’t be punished for using the Parry action in the middle of a horde. Additionally, if you change Warp Splitting to be something like “Weight of the Warp” and it gave your Strength instead of cleave, the Psyker could benefit from this as well without having to give them a special interaction (not that I’m opposed to neat stuff like that). It might help clarify that what is commonly understood to be “Gun Psyker” is actually “Melee Psyker”.
I’m fully expecting that the Arbities will be a Short Range “Controller” Class, and that, if Veteran and Zealot get the changes they need their roles will be redefined as “Duelers”, to exist alongside Ogryns as Boss Damage and Psykers as Horde Clear. With that structure, it’s easy to imagine “Long Range” counterparts to the Psyker, Ogryn, and Arbites (Sororitas, Astartes, and Mechanicus?) As we ascend up the elevation we are looking a lot more like an Inquisitors personal retinue; the Perfect seats to watch a story unfold.
I’m not a Vet main so I can’t make a post that’s this long about them, but they could be greatly improved if their Smoke Grenades gave some kind of Debuff to enemies entering their area for the first time. Something like Stagger (because the enemies are choking on the smoke)? Marksman Focus could be improved by relating it’s bonuses to killing specials/elites and instead of losing stacks when you move it could be when you reload. Instead of the Marksman wanting to stay still and away from enemies in…the horde shooter, they should have an option to keep those enemies away. Stagger enemies near you on a Weakspot or Critical? Make use of Shocktrooper there by leaning into never having to reload and keeping enemies away.
Also, the Vet class overall is to bottom heavy. Veteran has some good options but too many of them are at the bottom of the tree and there’s barely any at the top.
I personally Understand the Vet to effectively be “Overwatch”, “Saboteur”, and “Commander”. We already talked about Overwatch in Regards to Marksman Focus and Smokes, but Saboteur is real Vets run and gun build, with invis for survivability and utility, frags for groups, and Weapon Specialist for handling a variety of encounters. Infiltrate could probably stand to have a slight buff. Maybe increase it’s duration by 2 seconds, or give it Low Profile by base. Maybe both. The Saboteur’s real weapon is their grenades. Their just buying time until they can get back to that.
And the commander is Kraks and shout, offloading most of the work of actually shooting to the team, by pointing and shouting. The Kraks are for armored targets that the Commander doesn’t otherwise have a way to deal with. But for it to work they need more ability regen or shorter cooldowns. Or better yet, some kind of fear effect, that keeps enemies from approaching. That feels like it fits in with the fantasy of a commissar like character.
Similar to Zealot, changes like this to Vet would increase the viability of Vets different playstyles in higher difficulty challenges. I guess I know what my next rework suggestion post is going to be.

Assuming you read all this, I appreciate it. And as always, may your missions always end in glory, pilgrims.

TL; DR
This Kind of Structural Change at Minimum and some Node Updates to add greater utility and efficacy of options. Rework Martyrdom, Piety. They should switch benefits. Give new Crit Focus Martyrdom Infections Zeal and Righteous Warrior. As a Martyr you are a “Beacon of Purity”. Expand upon the gimmicks of Inexorable Judgment and the New Damage focused Piety. Rework Fury of the Faithful to have some kind of bonus for guns, and reorganize where you get what bonuses from stealth. Add a few more node options. Probably things that modify and enhance the Zealots movement, blocking, and ability duration.

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Way too many words, excellent pictures though, the re-organized structure still has something FS has been removing though bloat in Operative modifiers and neither adds more passive talents to the least optional tree.

need to remove 7-9 operative modifiers and replace with passives +7 more to get up to Arbites numbers.

Here was my last suggestion but even it has too many operative modifiers by our new standards… so probably an even more drastic structure change.

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My suggestion would ultimately leave a total of 3 operative mods, which I think is pretty good. It would put them at the least Operative Modifiers in the game but I think that’s fitting since usually OM are small flat bonuses and that should prob just come from Zealots base options.

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I was honestly half dead yesterday when I typed all of this up and I feel like I may have fumbled my initial presentation. After resting and looking at the statistics you shared, I was able to clarify some of my thoughts, and I edited the post to clear up some errors written in my fatigue and better clarify some of my points. That being said, I’m not expecting you to read the edits when you already felt like I was a bit wordy. To that end, if there’s anything you’re willing to read beyond the TL;DR, let it be this:

The Ogryn is finally in a relatively healthy place, with a distinct Role in the team, which is notable because Purge the Unclean doesn’t do much while still stepping on the Ogryns newly defined position as Monstrosity Masher. Unyielding enemies mostly make up the group of enemies that the Ogryn wants to attack, so now Purge the Unclean just kind of makes it more likely that you’re going to kill steal from your Ogryn instead of helping them win the fight. If it was Rending or Brittleness to Unyielding and Bonus Damage to Infested and Maniacs, it would retain Zealots ability to help punish Unyielding enemies or even take them down themselves while giving them a more important target to keep of the Ogryns back while they fought bosses.

The Arbites class is getting the Rapid Movement Passive, and that makes me think of all the Zealot gameplay skills you could legitimate. A Passive Similar to Rapid Movement, maybe something that regenerates Stamina and Increase Strength, could legitimate the Zealot “Crackhead Run”. Run while using the charge heavy and then slide at the end to go insanely fast, but now when you do it your recharging stamina to keep running and doing it into an enemy gives you a new way to aggress, weather that be with the Knife, Dueling Sword, Tactical Axe, or eve Guns. Running at an Enemy w/ Run and Gun before sliding into them and blasting them away sounds exactly like a Zealot.

You could legitimize the Zealot’s Stealth Double Stab. Right now, Shroudfield makes you pick between theoretical safety/utility or damage but this choice doesn’t really matter when you’ll uncloak your first attack regardless. Switch around Shroudfield’s base form to have it’s Original Movement Speed Bonus, but Perfectionist’s +50% Finesse and Backstab damage, the 5 Seconds from Master Crafted, and the Toughness Regeneration and Damage Reduction from Invigorating Revelation. You can cut the cooldown of Shroudfield to 20 seconds. Now, you make it so Perfectionist gives you the +100% Finesse/Backstab Damage and Critical Chance with a 100% cooldown increase (40 Seconds in total). Meanwhile Master-Crafted Shroudfield lets you make +1 Additional Attacks from Stealth. I recognize that some people wouldn’t be happy with what used to be as tech input becoming a base mechanic, but there in lies the best part. If you don’t change how Shroudfield actually functions, skilled players could still Double Stab, meaning that for skilled players, Master-Crafted Shroudfield is actually a Triple Stab. And Invigorating Revelation? +1 Attacks without breaking stealth, to give Perfectionist Players a taste of the Double Stab and skilled Master-Crafted Player the insanity of Quadruple Stab.

Loner is still underwhelming and I think it could be improved by letting you count as being in coherency with your two closest allies so you could still benefit from their auras or alternatively allowing you to get half the benefit of the Aura of your teammates. Chalk it up to being “With them in Spirit”.

Bite the bullet and integrate some kind of bonus in regards to firearms to Fury of the Faithful. Something like Bullet Impact and Penetration (but not damage) would be great, letting you rush forward and shoot through Obstacles.

I really do think Righteous Warrior and Infectious Zeal would be great on a Crit Focused Version of Martyrdom, but as for Piety and Judgment, I believe that making Piety users choose between increased Survivability or a way to prolong the duration is the right call. Menawhile, for Judgment, Retributor’s Stance and Inebriate’s Poise, which is almost something. Making the Zealot choose between Run and Gun or Spray and Pray is a cool dynamic. Maybe giving Retributor’s side something that makes them count as blocking when ADSing could help reinforce that dynamic. Then on Inebriate’s side, the could have something that lets them ADS while Sprinting could work. It helps reinforce Run and Gun without actually stepping on the Blessing’s toes.

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I certainly don’t disagree with your talent critiques… and I’ve done them too, talent by talent in better formatting and less words but it’s just too much for people to sit down and read even with good formatting.

Since I’ve fallen into this trap too I suggest picking a core issue closest to you and attack that bit of the tree… mine was just plain structure and honing that excel sheet, more details in below link if it needs more explanation but even that post goes a bit long.

[Poll] How to redo Talent Trees? - Warhammer 40,000: Darktide / Gameplay Feedback - Fatshark Forums

  • Purge the Unclean though… decent damage talent and kill competition isn’t stepping on toes.

  • Shroudfield, Auras, CDR, a lot of weaker talents all need a retune.

My last attempt too at break down but scrolling through 15min read just on OP like yours 13min with paragraph blocks @.@ FS may be skimming some of our ideas though but don’t expect much forum response, also formatting options in 2nd link.

[Zealot] Reworked - Warhammer 40,000: Darktide / Gameplay Feedback - Fatshark Forums

Hidden Forum Features! - Fatshark Lounge - Fatshark Forums

Kindred Spirit I suppose. I still appreciate the input. Thank you for your thoughts.

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You diagnosis is not only immensely accurate, but also presented in a very clear manner that should make it easy for anyone who doesn’t play Zealot as often to understand the issue.

In general I’m not sure as to how Zealot should be reworked, but it should certainly be reworked. The issues you have outlined result in rigid tree and scant build variety, which makes the class get stale quickly.

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I appreciate the shared sentiment and compliment. Truthfully, I made a lot of errors when I first wrote this up but I’ve picked away at it to try and make my points a lot clearer. I’m glad it seems like that’s paid of. I had to remind myself that some of the specifics I was brushing off was important context. Truthfully, I actually think Darktide is in a really healthy place right now. None of the classes are outright bad or weak. That means that they really only need a slight restructuring, small modification, and/or a little push to get them in an ideal position. The problem is that ultimately, as you get closer to that ideal point, it gets harder to tell what’s off. My thinking is that instead of adding new things to try and fix the problem, it’s better to pull from what Fatshark already has in the game and try to retool it to bring the experienced variety of builds more in line with the diversity of options we have to make them.

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