Let's Look Upon Zealot and Pray

I don’t think Zealot is in need of any major rework, but looking at the trend I have a strong inkling that they’ll be getting one next. They have the fewest nodes now, least flexible tree, and a lot of zealot players are switching to Ogryn. We’re seeing complaints, and suggestion threads like this one, appearing on the forums.

As such, I think it might be prudent to discuss a few problems with the current tree and see how they can be addressed, before the opportunity passes.


Over-reliance on Until Death and Holy Revenant.

This has been an issue since launch and it’s clear no amount of nerfing is going to make the combination of these two talents any less popular. I say we do a split here.

1.) Make Until Death a Passive. Reduce cooldown slightly. Make this a core part of zealot’s identity.

2.) Move Holy Revenant to Martyrdom Keystone:

and increase the cooldown back to 120s.

3.) Add Until-Death based nodes to Blazing Piety and Inexorable Judgement. Some suggestions:

The Candle That Burns: 100% crit chance for the duration of UD. UD’s Cooldown is reduced.

One Foot On The Pedal: Triggering UD gives max momentum stacks and a speed boost. The Duration of UD is increased.

There’s also debate to be had about whether martyrdom should get HR since it naturally benefits from being reduced to 1 hit point. HR could be added to the least popular keystone instead. If that is preferable, then Marty would need its own UD keystone. Here’s an OP one I think that could be on par with HR:

Death’s Doorknocker: Triggering Until Death gives you an additional stack of Martyrdom. A short time after Until Death ends you heal all non-corrupted health and have your total wounds reduced by 1 for the remainder of the match. Does not proc if you have 1 wound remaining, or less than 1 wound’s worth of missing health.

This is very powerful I’d imagine. But I think the core conceit of continued survival at the cost of current/max marty stacks provides both a boon for the lesser skilled players and incentive to Not Die for higher-skilled players. If this remains too potent, consider increasing the total wounds loss to 2 per activation, or a percentile rounded up to the nearest wound (So folks with max wounds would lose more than folks with fewer wounds.)

Its power could also be diluted by increasing the cooldown of Until Death further. If that still remains too potent, consider having additional tax nodes added to Marty or the preceding sector.


Node Swapping:

A few issues here.

This sector, especially if you accept the previous UD solution, is now a freak of nature and needs to be put down:

We’d need new nodes to replace UD and HR. And that 5% mobility tax node? That should also be its own talent. I recommend moving Hammer of Faith to this sector to balance out Zealot’s access to mid-tree stagger. Here is a selection of possible new nodes we could add to zealot.

Charity Drive: 25% more ammo (Could be placed in Hammer of Faith’s current spot.)

Flagellant: % of damage received is subtracted from your current stamina pool instead. This would also have synergy with Desperation.

Crusade: Killing an Elite or Specialist with a melee weapon gives you a movement speed bonus, duration refreshes on kill. (Replaces movement speed tax node)

Cross Bars could be added to improve flexibility.

And while on the subject of flexibility. You should have all 3 of the trees before the Blitz reconvene at a tax node before connecting to the Blitz. This would put it on par with the other 3 operators.

Although do note, I expect the usage of stun grenades to go down as a result. They would likely need a boost to compensate. I recommend something like “Stunned enemies take more damage” or increasing the stun duration. And consider having them explode on impact.


Chorus of Spiritual Fortitude

I like Chorus, And unlike VoC I actually see a lot of zealots running all three CAs. But the biggest issue I see with it is that it can be a bit boring waiting for all your pulses to finish. There’s also something to be said about Gold Toughness being a bit overtuned but I’m not qualified to speculate on how to fix that. Also, why does it have a tax node? If it’s too powerful the power should be reduced and the tax node removed. Or at least give us a choice between two exclusionary tax nodes.

Solution 1: Consider making Chorus 3 good pulses, collapsing the power of the extended pulses and Banishing Light into them(max range/suppression on first pulse, bosses stagger on all 3 pulses, increased healing).

Solution 2: Consider making the relic a banner that gives its pulses in an AOE around it. Allowing zealots to attack freely at the cost of reduced mobility (requiring allies to “Rally Around” instead of moving the buff to them).

Alternate tax node for Banishing Light could be:

Enveloping Light: You and your allies affected by Chorus now glow, emitting considerable light around them. They no longer consume stamina and gain a slight movement speed increase for a set duration. Each pulse refreshes the duration.

The gist being you choose between hard CC or a better support buff for your allies. I imagine most would still chose the former, but having an actual choice here would still be a boon.


New Nodes and Nitpicks

I don’t think we really need too many new nodes. But if FS disagrees, here’s a few areas where new nodes could be added.

This always bothered me:

I imagine this is a likely spot for branches to go:


I myself would prefer fewer nodes:

But this would result in a spare point if you do a cross. So there’s consequences to consider.

You can have the same down here, but wtih fewer consequences:

And of course, more nodes in the keystones could be interesting, especially if they’re exclusionary choices.

Nitpicks:

These are more personal grievances than actual problems.

Fortitude in Fellowship should have the +50% increased coherency radius buff, and all the other +50% increased coherency radius nodes on other operators should have +50% increased coherency regen as well. This is a common solution I’ve seen to address these nodes being real Auric Storm Survivors if you catch my drift.

We need more nodes that work with Perfect Blocks. Consider adding this to some/all of the non-stacking “On Successful Dodge” nodes as an additional trigger parameter. I don’t think this would be enough to encourage folks to practice their Perfect Blocks, but it does allow folks who already go for Perfect Blocks to not be punished for it.

Talents that reward Perfect Block specifically could also be introduced, and placed on the left-ish side of the tree. Some possible examples:

Demoralizer: Performing a Perfect Block causes nearby enemies to be staggered, enemies staggered this way take more damage for a short amount of time. This ability has a short cooldown.

Fools Guard: Performing a Perfect Block increases the damage of your next melee attack, and the duration and speed of your next dodge.

Ignore and Abhor: Performing a Perfect Block increases weapon switch speed and boosts ranged damage for a short duration.

The Blood Must Flow: Performing a Perfect Block imparts bleed stacks on nearby enemies.

Lastly, consider swapping Dance of Death with Unremitting. This would further reinforce the “Identities” of the three sectors. Also consider making “Shield of Contempt” the tax talent and moving The Emperor’s Bullet above Sainted Gunslinger:

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I’m against any changes to the Zealot tree. It is the best class to play because it has the least bloated talent tree.

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I also don’t think it should be changed much, outside of maybe slight tweaks and targeted fixes to very specific problems, spread out over many updates. But my reasoning is different. We’ve been power creeping since patch 13 and I would very much like to stop (Or at least slow down). Adding a bunch of new nodes in one go almost always results in more power.

But I think FS is doing these “Tree Reworks” as their alternative to adding new Operators/Subclasses. So I don’t think they’re going to stop. It’s likely they’ll be adding new nodes regardless of our opinions on the matter.

So given the choice between crossing my arms and objecting to the inevitable or trying in vain to steer an unstoppable object towards a slightly better direction, I’ve chosen the latter.


Another day in the life of a Zealot player!

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My idea is to do a full tree rework. Until death is a big feature of zealot so either tying behind Martyrdom or tax talents with a V2 natural bond handicap ie unable to use med stations and health stim packs is my plan.

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At the very least, zealot should get free reign on grenade choice like ogryn and vet. And maybe psyker, idk I don’t play that class. :gigachad:

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Indeed. That is likely the superior choice here. But I am concerned about Stun grenades not measuring up to Combustion and Knives though.

Maybe we give the stunstorms a subnode. We could give one to knife too that rewards consecutive headshots because by jove, that’s fun. But I’m generally in favor of solutions that add the fewest nodes at this point.

at least all 3 zealot keystones are viable and there is build variety between those 3

I feel like Zealot is just fine

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I do too. Their CAs are also fairly well balanced. I know folks in Havoc don’t care for the golden toughness of relic but in regular quickplay I see a fairly equal mix of the three. But as I said earlier:

And it’s not like the tree doesn’t have problems (As I mentioned in the post, an over-reliance on Until Death-Holy Revenant and Chorus’ just taking you out of the action for sooooo long), it’s just I’m used to these problems and I worry heavily about the new problems FS would add in their place.

For me, it’s a way to be able to choose the blitz more freely and that’s all good, I’m happy.

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Told it a lot of times…

First thing to fix is the CDR nodes. CDR nodes are what is restraining a lot the zealot builds.
IOD is TOO strong. Martyr’s purpose has to be changed.

If there is ONLY 1 thing to change, this is that.

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Ah, completely forgot about those. I’d also say Pious Cut-throat is pretty overtuned as well, but it seems like FS was going for a kind of a theme here of having Zealot have crazy CDR, so maybe we’re looking at it wrong? That we should instead assume Zealots are suppose to have outrageously high CA uptime and make sure the CAs themselves are not overtuned as a result.

Regardless, I’d agree they need to tweak Martyrs Purpose.

To hit two birds with one stone here, what about getting increased CD regen for a few seconds after a Perfect Block? They could alternatively have it give a chunk of CDR like Pious and add a cool-down to prevent farming.

Or they move that entirely into Martyrdom as a subnode since it’s in the name and change it to a % CA regen increase per stack. But again, that might muck with the theme they got going.

I know I probably shouldn’t care so much about the ‘aesthetics’ of a skill tree, whose purpose is strictly function over form, but I can’t change who I am.

Restructure similar to Ogryn, still needs to be some branching but more choices, less nodes, more taxes or nerfs to strongest talents.

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haven’t used stun grenades in ages. not only are they on the worse part of the tree, but they’re useless 99% of the playing time. except when it’s time to clutch. and until then i rather keep my 3 grenades in reserve and let the ogryn pick up the rest.

I skimmed through it, so sorry if a get something wrong. I think both Until Death and Holy Revenant should become a passive like orgyn damage resistance since Until death and holy Revenant is a integral part of Zealot’s Identity. A cool node for Martyrdom is that it reserves a large portion of health and add it to toughness. If anyone know about the front loader from bl3, it kinda works like that. It kick starts have stacks and increases survivability by stack more toughness and allows the use of heals since you can’t go pass a threshold.
I don’t think Death’s doorknocker is very good. It is a very feast or famine type of deal.
Other-wise I like the ideas here.

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I have been ““experimenting””

It’s funny how the best Zealot I could make for Havoc 40 is the one that has the best CDR and his main purpose is spamming book. Piocus cut throat should also probably be checked upon as well

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Buff zealot?

I do agree with guarding until death behind Martyrdom. It fits thematically and brings back balance. Crit based damage reduction on top of until death is too damn strong.

Perfect block as an engaging mechanic would be really nice.

I have a big gripe especially with the first part of the tree. All desirable nodes are packed right - that should change. And enduring faith needs a NERF to 30% tdr

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Sure… let’s buff buff buff

When will they buff enemies?

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I think buffing enemies maybe easier to balance at this point than nerfing talents