Except that one and half extra optimised build path, most of the tree remains unused, severely limiting potential builds. Some talents are just too good, and feel like a must-have, whilst others are just terrible.
5 Likes
After Arbites sets the forum on fire about shotguns and gets balanced it can only lead to the table pounding for fixing vet would increase, so zealot wont be reworked.
Jokes aside, which part of āmost of the treeā are you referring to and what would you like to see improved?
Which talents?
As far an answer to topic question, I would say between November 2026 - Skulls 2027.
Green too good, red bad / not worth the investment. Outside the Beacon Purity / Chorus builds for Havoc support, too much of the top of the talent tree just feels dead, and most builds just follow the same path through the Blades of Faith, Holy Revenant into whatever bottom keystones fit into your weapon choices, but most people go into Judgement or crit for cooldown reduction, which is still insane. Top right of the tree is just way too good, same as Until Death / Holy Rev nodes area.
Some talents just feel like pure talent point tax (Iām looking at you Banishing Light), and we have THREE talents which are centered around doing extra Stagger in a game where Fatshark adds difficulty modifiers which make enemies ignore it. Not to mention in general that extra stagger isnt worth much.
8 Likes
The stagger stuff is okay-ish if you double down and use something like the crusher. Not exactly meta though.
Some of your red options at the top make martyrdom tanky, but I am curious to see what they do with martyrdom.
The rest of your red talents were clearly some devās idea of a gunzealot spec that never gained traction. Would like to see that get some love the way melee psyker did.
2 Likes
I hoping we get it with the arbiters patch to greater encourage more than one class spammed in matches was a bit annoying having full ogryn explosion teams.
I know we disagree on some things, but I REALLY disagree with you here 
My framerate agrees tho
On topic my inner optimist has some hopes about a general touch-up of talent trees for the rest of the classes. I know there are some Vet pre/post patch 13 discussions out there so hopefully they donāt stuff it up like that.
I will say the Ogryn talent tree patch is a complete banger as far as Iām concerned (thatās a good thing). I have gotten so much enjoyment out of testing out new builds and nodes.
I really hope Zealot tree gets something similar, it definitely has some similar problems with node/build dominance. Crit/bleed + CDR too damn good, and pigeon-holes you into certain weapon types ā much like Ogryn heavy attack focus. Removing that has done wonders for build diversity.
Additionally I hope they give some QoL to the Zealot charge targeting system.
2 Likes
Hopefully the blitzes are opened up like the other characters who arenāt psyker. Dunno how to do that without opening up even more dumb builds but at this point Iād rather have builds plural and not like a near identical 20 points dropped and maybe I swap keystone or ult around. Its so dull atm, Incoming Wind and other skills are so beyond the other toughness-protecting/restoring options Zeal has, and then throwing knives. It sucks because that last buff for flashbangs was nice, but the talents around are extraordinarily mid. I think that vicious offering particularly could use some touch up with the recent ogg changesā¦
1 Like
Zealot / Psyker have the fewest choices but due to drastically better structured tree and more Blitz/Keystone/Ability choices Zealot far the worst tree in choice
Every other class has better structure especially at the Blitz /aura areas
Was especially bad with VT2 4th class releases with the extra character lock out as everyone wanted to try out the one new slot
1 Like
Yeah, more like a āreorganizationā as thereās a lot about zealot/a lot of individual pips that are super strong, but holy heck are they one note and insanely dull to try and buildcraft with.
Like, I just finished going through a lot of my builds after finishing up with my Ogryn, touching up a bunch of things or adding different weapons and such to different builds for my tines, and I sat there like entirely reworking half my veteran builds from the ground up (because Catch a Breath is so heavily a thing that class needed and feels so very nice to have on any build that goes in that direction, so most of them), and even my Psyker had a few things here and there to poke around with (add a few weapons to things, change around a couple set ups for varieties sake, they donāt have much talent variety due to low passive count but you can still get a lot of variance just from how open the tree is). And of course the only limiting factor for big man now was weapon choice, I slapped a full 19 builds on to him even though most of them used similar weaponry/just played around with different marks because of just how much you can change and move around his tree.
But then I got to Zealot, tabbed through all the builds, most of them looked about the same, nothing needed changing, only difference consisted of 1-2 talent point changes between each of the builds or going down the ābad pathsā with my extra points just to feel alive again. But I needed to shift nothing, nothing got touched, and there was nothing to experiment with. So I f-d around with the Relic Blade for a few games, threw some infinite immolation grenades in Mortis (just cause Iām still slowly working through that 50 games penance, though saving a bit of that for Judge Dred leveling), then left.
All the interesting stuff is locked behind tax so massive it never feels good, so you just do the same type of thing over, and over, and over again. I even have builds that use the left and middle starting trees just to throw those blitzās, but Iām always making up for those choices never happy Iām making them like everyone else. They are still strong, but they are strong in spite of their tree at this point, fighting for every inch and clicking the 4-5 talents that make them actually mater (Second Wind, Enduring Faith, Undying, Precog, and Thy Wrath be Swift if one feels so inclined), and then everything else becomes set dressing.
Iād put immolation grenade on like, so many more builds if I didnāt need to gut my build to do itā¦though that isnāt nearly as much of a gut (thanks to the lovely damage increase nodes) as left side, holy heck every day I see a Stun Grenade I question who hurt you. I have it on likeā¦2, builds I think, just because I wanted some that used Vicious Offering because reasons. But likeā¦gosh this class just needs a few more funny lines and for their tax talents to be given a face lift. Gimme āEnduring Faith gets nerfed but now you got like 3 other ways to gain DRā Ogryn Delight in Destruction energy mannn.
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Yeah in general I wish talent trees had few major talent nodes you have to hit, surrounded by several minor talent leaves. It would be harder to balance, but would offer a higher build variety in the long run.
2 Likes
Exactly that.
1 Like
After we get the veteran rework
Sooooo in about 38 mileniums
What veteran rework?
1 Like
The one im psychically nudging fatshark towards
He doesnāt need much probably the tree with the least issues
Hereās mine =)
ā¦rework posts arenāt as popular as character appearance tho =\
Why do you mark DoD as too good when its one of the most garbage perk in entire Game, Thy Wrath be Swift is trash too. Just tax perk when you make a Loner / Shroudfield for whatever Reason; Good Balance can be good but have to waste a Point on DoD.
Disdain / Enemies Within/Without arenāt great but can work; barely ever see them used but i tried them out on a Martyrdom Build for extra Survivability with Good Balance and found it quite good and i only play Auric MS/Damn but ofc had to sacrifice some DMG and no Invoc but used 2-Stack Fury anyway so donāt need Invoc in that case (wouldnāt go into Havoc with that tho, Havoc is like play that one single Chorus-Crit / Invoc Build or GG)
But yeah a lot of just entirely useless / tax Perks