So, I have a problem (nothing new) with Stub Revolver, big problem - lore wise.
Why this weapon deals almost as much damage as a bolter now?
Let’s compare:
Stub weapon: Stub guns or slug guns are a name that refers to a wide variety of low-velocity, high-calibre pistols.
Bolter:
A .75 caliber weapon, the boltgun works similarly to a grenade launcher firing a relatively small explosive; an initial ballistic charge launches the bolt in the same way as with an autogun, after which the explosive, commonly called a ‘bolt’, is self-propelled. Once it penetrates its target, it explodes.
Why something that fires solid projectiles which seems to be at either .44 Magnum or some short rifle Intermediate cartridge size deals almost the same damage as Explosive 0.75 cal?
ARGH… Why It couldn’t be a bolt pistol like Garm Pattern Service Bolt Pistol?
There could be cosmetics to turn it into Godwyn-De’az Pattern for Zealot players (especially for SoB players).
If you want to keep stub revolver It should deal smaller damage (150+ for IA Headhunter vs 300+ for Stub Revolver – COME ON!), definitely receive speed-loader (it’s a 40k Emperor damnit, I’m sure you can bend a piece of metal in a circle add springs and rivets to hold 5/6/7 cartridges together!) and bigger ammo pool. Also VERY short draw time (good synergy with infiltrator build?).
If not – some obscure bolt revolver (maybe Tertium factory specializes in one like bolters from Necromunda) and higher damage (it should also be bulkier).
Im not a gun nut guy but caliber not nessery equals penetration… Example 5.56 AP can penetrate a inch thick(?) Steel plate but the 7.62 struggling with it…
Also in game bolter =/= astrates bolter we get a downsized variant, (my estimate is at least a half sized) humans dose not have the strength to hold an astrates bolter (+ forbidden to do so)
So there is a good chance the ammonutiun close to a stubber caliber one (50cal) due to downsized weapon rather than a astrates one…
If you want mad about inconsistency try vent your anger at the plasma penetration, uncahrged shot only penetrat 2-3 base horde unit meanwhile the revorver penetrate up to 5…
The lore is a bit inconsistent here, all I remember there were Thunder warriors and later Astartes bolters chambered for .50 and .60 Cal (M30).
There was also something about bolts having a one standard throughout Imperium with Astartes always given priority when resupplying. Not sure which caliber was it (If heavy then it doesn’t work as an argument for me), also if that tidbit comes from Rogue Trader days, again my argument will not be worth a Squat (get it? Huehuehue).
Games Workshop does not help to clarify that but 0,75 and 1.0 Cal (there was something about .998 but I’m not sure where I saw that) are most common caliber of bolts if they appear in books/media at all.
Anyway:
AP stands for Armor Piercing… so it just does its job well.
And which 7.62? There are EDIT:3 4 types of cartridges with that bullet diameter? (In “mm” kinda/yeah, but that statement is also wrong, all .30 cal have this bullet diamiter - I forgot to include those). (I understand you mean 7,62x39 - the soviet one)
Have you compared it to 7,62x39mm .43 BZ? It’s AP-Incendiary… (I know, I know - apples and oranges…)
What is forbidden and what Inquisitor might do or give his retinue are two VERY different things.
We are talking Puritan or Radical here, maybe something else entirely? Does anyone know where Inquisitor Grendyl stands on the matter?
This is a solid argument… On one hand we have a solid “slug” projectile which could have great penetration capabilities (don’t know), buuuuut on the other hand: even standard pattern bolt is designed to PENETRATE and EXPLODE INSIDE THE TARGET.
Also, plasma gun should be more devastating, but also more deadly for user:
No amount of game balance discussion would make me feel alright about this.
There is balance, yes but when a bolter round or a plasma shot deals close to (or in case of crit less) than a revolver round my monkey brain activates and the rage starts.
For the sake of gameplay, the revolver should reward precise shooting with very high weakspot multipliers, combined with much faster/easier handling & more ammo than a heavy gun like a bolter.
It has to compare somehow or there would be no reason to have it in the game.
I’m not so sure about 0.9 cal. (I’ll toss it to the pile of “warp shenanigans”), but!
Manstopper rounds… wasn’t that just + something to AP? We are talking Only War or Dark Heresy here?
Thats my exact point here, bit far fetched i know but for lower caliber you can produce more “special” round from an unit of resource.
First possibilty:
The dmg diference migh be explained revorver always have AP rounds loaded and the bolter only have standard rounds… also bolter might be considered heavy weaponry so because its “heavy nature” ammo much scarce to upgrade it up to AP, it might be so scarce we only got surplus low powered round…
Second possibilty:
Also the bolter round’s explosion and higher caliber in game might be translate to stagger dmg and the small blast radius so the owerall destruction cheks out for the bolters despite revorver dose more raw dmg
The third possibilty:
The machine spirits just hates you when a low level scum rejet / expandable inquisitorial warband member touching the bolter so dose not grant you the full potential of its destructive power…
Whit this blessing bolter should be “more lore” accurate cleaving trough trash inflicting only litle (in game dmg) because full penetration and cause massive destruction on high value traget thx to its dmg+blast dmg+stagger dmg as a whole.
3 is my favorite. Also this blessing should be itegrated in the boltgun without wasting a slot. Then it would be better. Still not sold on revolver power though.
Its an annoying game trope to make SPACE .44 magnums do more damage than rifle rounds, when in real life this simply isn’t the case. My full auto rifle should be pumping out far more damage per magazine than a revolver. I have no issue with the revolver being a serious hand cannon that is good for popping specialist heads but its irrational for a squash-head projectile out of a handgun to be giving crushers anything special to worry about.
I’d like to see a bolt pistol released and the revolver’s cleave and anti-armor damage reduced afterwards. It still should have some cleave and maintain its role as a high utility specialist sniper. But punching through like 3 flak dudes seems silly. Alternatively just buff autoguns pen? I dunno. I big dig the revolver right now so maybe i shouldn’t be proposing nerfs and instead proposing buffs to other things.
So, should a bolter do much more damage per shot than a revolver if we’re talking about “”“”“realism”“”“” (in a goddamn 40k game)? Sure.
But given how damage and breakpoints work in this game, why the hell would I ever want to bring a revolver if it has awful breakpoints on top of its horrendous reload time and lowish ammo pool? We had a revolver that was more in line in terms of damage vs bolters, which was revolvers before their buff. They were awful and just not worth bringing.
I’m more than happy to let “”“”“realism”“”" take a back seat here if it means giving me a reason to actually bring a revolver.
Bruh we dont talking abot “”“”“”““realism””“”“”" we talking about lore accuarcy, two different things… and the possibilityes what can and can be done whitout the expense of the gameplay…
Revorver has great crit rate and crit dmg and has decent break point if you managed to get decent perks maniac / specialist, (if im corret) it has fast swiching speed and good range and ridicolus penetration value. So pretending its whortless and the only redeemable value is the also ridicoulusly high dmg is just plain stupidity in my opinion
But you can’t get decent break points, especially in Damnation, if the revolver is supposed to be as weak as an actual revolver is supposed to be compared to a bolter? And OP is claiming that revolver shouldn’t have good penetration either.
According to the lore, a stub revolver shouldn’t be all that much more powerful than a laspistol. If all I wanted from a pistol was fast switching speed and good range I’d just get a laspistol, why on earth would I bother with a revolver? What would be the point of a revolver at all in Darktide? What would the revolver’s role even be, and how would it be distinguished from a laspistol?
The way the revolver is designed in Darktide is a weapon that rewards good aim and good judgment, in part by offering massive damage per shot at the price of a small magazine size and long reload time. Take away the massive damage per shot and you basically have nothing.
Lore accuracy is all well and good, but sacrificing that much game design for lore accuracy is just silly.
Answer is that there is no lore accuracy in Darktide gameplay reasons.
If you’re familiar with the Tabletop game, you can make a somewhat lore accurate view of the guns.
Stub revolver would be S3 AP0 D1 with pathetic range of 6", while Laspistol would be same stat but with 12" range and Bolt pistol would be S4 with 12" range. For reference: A trained soldier with Flak armor is T3 and 5+ armor save, unarmed civilians would be T1 or T2.
Armor Save characteristics by D6 dice are thus: 2+ Terminator Armor, 3+ Power Armor, 4+ Carapace Armor, 5+ Flak Armor, 6 21st century bullet vests or improvised armor and no save for Unarmored.
The written lore reason for using revolver is it is cheaper and easier to acquire than Laspistol if you are not part of Imperial Guard or other Military organizations. Local knowledgeable gunsmith of your hab bloc can whip out you one faster than a Stub gun or Stub pistol. The caliber would be around .30 to .50, with likely a magnum gunpowder load, which might pierce Flak Armor (Better if it is dedicated Armor Piercing round), but is best against a local criminal trying to rob you in the underhive.
So it is gameplay reasons.
Honestly that’s how I feel about las weapons in this game having recoil, making pew sounds instead of whip cracks, having laser light have a noticeable travel time, and leaving a glowing trail in the air. It just feels wrong
Lore aside, we all want to see the revolver being useful. I have no idea what’s the lore like behind that specific weapon, but it has to serve a purpose in the game, beyond frustraiting you with arm shot damage.
It’s not a real answer (probably not even a very good one), but I rationalize it as some kind of loss of knowledge côck-up. Like, “after the Dark Age of Technology, gun design got screwy because dumb”.
I vaguely remember that before the Lion was recovered from Caliban, The Order and other knightly houses had (among other things) obscenely powerful stub guns capable of significantly damaging daemons, and most of them were in the shape of revolvers ranging from pepperbox to peacemaker style designs. As I recall, some were solid-shot musket balls, some were proto or pseudo bolter rounds, but most were essentially just uber-magnum cartridges (similar to those of today albeit with an enormously increased grain count).
Admittedly, this rationalization kinda falls apart because it’s made clear that Calibanite weapons are typically vastly inferior to the Imperium’s, but that’s where the first rationalization comes back in.
Look, the real reason is what @Amerikanovich already said, but I guess the point I’m meandering towards here is that there’s enough lore to muddle the waters to a decent degree if that discrepancy starts to nag at the back of one’s mind.
“And finally, here comes I - All dressed in white” with idea I will keep preaching till no one will listen anymore and then some…
How about “not all weapons should be viable for all threat levels”? But this time I have a new spin!
How about we carry 3 types of weapons at all time? (I’m not counting grenades).
Backup ranged weapons:
Revolver, Las-pistol, Shredder autopistol would be in backup slot and later could be exchanged to Bolt or Plasma pistol, Digi-weapon (not really… too obscure, but I needed an example) or wrist flamer.
A) Vet, Psyker, Zealot
Melee onehanded
Ranged Backup (onehanded)
Main Ranged weapon (twohanded)
B) Psyker, Zealot
Melee twohanded
Nothing or onehanded for snapshots (can only block with melee when firing)
