Decay system if you can get perfect items… I don’t think this is surprising.
You can craft a perfect weapon as you want, a decay system is needed. Also I don’t see a problem at spending materials to repair a weapon from time to time. Have you played a game with a decay system? There’s always an option to repair. The reparation can damage permanently the weapon, or not. The reparation cost a lot, or not. This is the part that permits clearly to adjust costs regarding resources you can collect.
This is a way to keep an economy in a game.
Also, where is the problem when you can, at first crafted weapon, get EXACTLY what you want?
If we are in this situation, where you can craft at day one what you want and never have to craft again, then the game economy is broken as there is really no point to collect resources. This is exactly what is proposed by people that ask a system where you will get perfect weapons. A broken economy. And that’s also what FS pointed in the last patch notes.
But, as I said, for me the problem is not the crafting (bad system yes, problem with Brunt, absolutely, but a system where you can get excellent weapons), but about content.
This game has a lot of things that are totally useless. Who has tried to carry a team with using revolver and catachan sword? noone cause you will wipe before your teamates.
There’s obviously a balance problem in this game that has more effects that the people, that focus on crafting, want to admit.
When there are more useless blessing than great blessing, then this means that, when you will craft something, you have more chances to find something that is useless (perk that are just a slot wasted, blessing that give no bonus, blessings that are too strong, blessings mandatory, balance problems are everywhere).
The constant expenses for maintainance would slow down the rate at which players accumulate ressources, but unless you hard lock the amount of ressources that players can own, players would still continuously accumulate ressources over time.
But since you suggested that players would be able to get perfect items QUICKLY, none of that matters anyway, because players could instantly craft perfect versions of newly released weapons, which would then again reduce the crafting system to nothing but a repair service (or a place where you repeatedly build the exact same item again and again, how fun).
You know what would be a good way to keep the economy running?
Having actual long term use of the crafting system due to the availibility of gradual modifier upgrades.
Aside from all that, there is no trading between players, so inflation does not exist and there is no need for continuous expenses to keep people‘s “wealth“ in check.
Nobody except you suggested this.
With any of the reasonable suggestions that were made, this is absolutely not a problem.
Aside from that, your suggested system “solves” the issue by turning crafting into a repetitive chore instead, which is arguably worse than not interacting with the system at all, once you have a decent item.
Even if the economy problem would exist (which it would not for a very long time), FS could simply add the ability to exchange crafting ressources for dockets, so that those who no longer want/need to craft, can buy out the free skin store faster.
This is only a problem as long as locks are a major limiting factor.
As soon as the crafting system is in a good state, those things are not immediate issues anymore and can then be solved over time.
It is in a system where you can get something perfect with 100% chances, yes it is EXCEPT if you don’t have any economy in the game.
Grow up guy. Locks will remain or they will entirely change the system.
I would bet, like someone else, that we don’t have the definitive picture about what will be crafting in future.
Maybe… there are a lot of systems that can be imagined to make the crafting better.
However, you have to define the objective of your system. You have to define the tools you will offer. Then you can build the system.
In fact you never cease to propose only one thing that is at the opposite of what they tried to achieve. Your solution is a broken economy and everybody with one perfect weapon and off course, all of us with same blessings.
Lot of people love to discover things in games. That’s what I like. Once I have tested everything, I will continue to play if I take fun. However, playing same maps with same weapons is not something I will qualify as fun… I would qualify it as boring.
Wrong… but yes I know.
It is easy to call me insane, and difficult to read what I write. You spend your time at just be insulting and cannot afford any discussion.
I said that I would want a good BALANCE between all weapons and also blessing. I said also that perks need a rework.
Do you want me to calculate the number of combinations for any weapon if we had all blessings useful and also just perks that give a real bonus?
So yes, you would build new weapons, to test different setup, weapons, blessing combinations etc.
Especially if you can build anything you want, but cannot modify it.
Yes I know… your obsession.
And when you reach the max? nothing to do. Not even the need to repair something.
So you will get lot of ordos and plasteel… for diamantine, we can see actually how the system turns when a material is not really needed.
Yes… we can throw in the sea the game economy.
In fact by day one, I mean when you craft your weapon.
Reasonable? Let me laugh 5 minutes, cause it is hilarious.
You propose to ruin the entire economy of the game, you propose NOTHING to give a purpose to the materials, and you call that reasonable? Are you crazy?
WOW… this looks so smart (joke inside, search the word that is the opposite of what I think).
Simply we can exchange plasteel against ordos… WOWWWWWWW.
I did not think about that. Really smart.
And when you have bought everything and have 50 millions dockets? Once they release any cosmetics, you will buy them immediately and… nothing remain to spend all these ordos…
So great…
So after ruining the use of material (no remaining purpose of collecting resources), you plan also to ruin also the use of ordos…
Really, you should code a game.
Fact is (I will keep simple cause I know it is difficult for you to understand what I say):
OR you build a game without economy (nothing wrong with that) and then you can do system without any resources or money
OR you build the game around an economy. It is harder to code and to balance, but more interesting.
Fact is, you put a lot of efforts at spreading negativity and you want to finish your efforts by ruining also the economy of the game.
In other words, you want to trade a bad system to a worst one.
Well, you are obsessed with crafting… fine.
However it is not balance against crafting. Balance is needed. We have ton of blessings that are unwanted by the players. We have ton of perks that are totally useless (I would say that 6 are good enough and 6 are bad and between these 6 we have two badly designed).
They should not spend their time on crafting, but should go for content.
They don’t need veteran players of VT2, they need more players. So, they should not aim at VT2 veteran but for any potential new players… at least if they want to get out of the low players population we can see in VT2 and DT.
Not all players are totally mad at getting the perfect weapon. I think that there are lot of people that can think that the 5% missed for unyielding (or whatever you want) cause you have a T3 instead of a T4 is not the end of the world. But, it is obviously for you (yea I know breakpoints lalalalala etc. habitual bullshits etc.).
Now, I will give you a little tip. You have an ignore function. Use it, don’t hesitate.
I made it for the 3 insulting persons that are just a…holes that can’t discuss without being agressives.
Yes, sorry I have clicked on “show hidden post”. Well, I was not disappointed. This is, as always, full of hate and bullshits. How many years you will keep asking for the system you want and obviously won’t be implemented? No, please don’t answer. Go discussing with someone else. You are just a loss of time.
This is a little pathetic your obsession about me. You have no friend, no family? not even a pet? i don’t know… anything that could make you quit your constant negativity.
I can understand this feeling. However, note that this was for a total different system where we could build our weapon like we want (so no X tries to get something good)
As I said, it is up to the community to propose things that could be taken into consideration by FS.
I will be honest with you. I don’t think that a decay system will come. All the system they have built is made to avoid that.
What I want to say is… There are plenty of solutions to replace the system, even if I have said lot of time that I don’t think that they will go for changing entirely the crafting system.
I must admit that I have loved Mechwarrior… The game looks really different but what bored me in Mechwarrior is that everything is so slow even if you can destroy everything with so powerful weapons.
This game looks like to have a fun gameplay and good replayability
I amongst other peole have suggested solutions to the problem.
Again, as always, you act like nobody ever proposed a solution.
Source : trust me bro.
Yet again, you make things up. As usual.
If you ignore everything that i ever proposed and then go entirely by what you made up, then yes.
This is what i suggested. I have linked it to you personally on a few occasions when you spread the same lie as you do right now.
So either you willingly ignored what i suggested, or you know what i suggested but lie about it anyway.
Is what you say while calling my actual discussion and reasonable arguments “bullshits” and while continuing to ignore everything that i actually said.
You literally did say that and i quoted you saying just that. Everyone can see that you said it.
Yet you keep lying…
Oh no… nothing to do with your ressources after hundreds of hours of spending them on exactly what you want.
The horror…
As i already said, when the constant need for repairs is the only interaction with the crafting system, you might as well not have a crafting system at that point.
A solution that keeps all ressources relevant for hundreds of hours of playtime seems pretty reasonable to me.
You do not seem reasonable though. Since you keep misrepresenting and lying. Amongst other things.
Oh no.
After 500 hours or so, a player will have bought all the things.
How awful…
Dude, get a grip. You are so out of touch, it is not even funny.
After all, you said that it is easy to get all the blessings that you want, followed by your statement that you have almost all of the good blessings for most of your favorite weapons after 1300 hrs of playtime.
Not all blessings. Not even all of the good ones for all of your favorite weapons.
After 1300 hours.
If there is one person on this forum who has a massive problem with reading comprehension (and responding to what people actually said), i am pretty sure that would be you.
Every time there is a discussion about crafting, you hop in, ignore everything that everyone else says and you repeat your same old “arguments” like a mantra.
Claiming that your lie is actually a “fact”, does not make it so.
Do you have anything to say, that is not completely made up?
Are you aware that we are publicly communicating via written text, which means that everyone can see what was actually said and that you are making things up?
You proceed to not actually address what i say.
I quite clearly said that some perks and blessings being bad, is not as much of an issue, when players have complete freedom to pick what they want to have on their weapons.
Players can use what is good, while the bad stuff is getting reworked.
No obsession.
You simply make a lot of bad posts.
They are kinda fun to respond to.
The irony…
And if you are wondering why certain people are not very nice to you specifically, that could be explained by your insufferable way of constantly lying and misrepresenting everything that other people say.
It does get annoying and when you are annoying, people do not tend to be as nice to you as they might be otherwise.
what economy? this is a co op game with no trading. the idea that your grinded pile of play time is somehow its own barter item is the laughable concept. its basically the PC fat meme saying ‘I got mine now grind yours’.
As far as we know, since we had strings mentioning 90% max modifiers back in Signal Update (December…) nobody’s gear is perfect anyway. Remember the curios have ceilings of 20% toughness and 25% HP too. Will Fat Shark have invalidated your grind whenever they decide to up the item modifier score limit which they are obviously planning to do?
Anyway most of this topic is getting out of hand but nobody has a correct take one way or the other on whether or not perpetual grind is fun. We have metrics on it, but I’d also blame the game launching early without tons of features and now with major mechanics receiving overhauls a year later. Stagger system in VT2 was one thing, but this is tantamount to throwing the VT2 class system into VT1. Items just were an easy thing to focus on when blasting reviews because like literally who thought of something this obnoxious, without planning it specifically to be as obnoxious as humanly possible.
Huge selection of weapons and mechparts which alter your style of play drastically
Even after only a few hours of play.
From heavily armed and armoured tank-mechs which pound the enemy to oblivion, to extremely agile fighter-mechs that dance through the air, evading and slicing the enemy apart.
Missions are cool. They’re quite varied and pose unique challenges. More special encounters than I expected.
Visual customisation is bonkers. You can paint everything in your desired patterns, colours, weathering and material. Design your own insignia, slap that on. Rename your mech, save and share the specs…
That being said it is a very complex game. Takes some time getting used to all the inputs and the three dimensional combat, but it’s fantastic so far. I’ll probably never be really good at it, but the skill ceiling is insanely high. Meanwhile, it’s relatively easy to get into and if you build a tanky mech, you might be able to brute force the enemy after a while.
Ordos, plasteel, diamantine…
this is what we call an economy.
No purpose to collect material or to get ordos = no economy = no need to put materials in game
Fact is removing locks to remove locks remove any purpose of the economy they introduced in the game.
Don’t get me wrong. Both are fine. But when you want to keep an economy in the game, you have to let a purpose for the system.
Removing locks is removing any purpose of the economy. And from what I have seen in the FS posts, they don’t want that.
Obviously, yes they will.
The question is, for what? is it to amend the actual system with something else (red weapons?), is it just to keep the grind or is it to introduce a system they have think since the start or something different inspired by propositions of players?
Nobody here knows it. What we know is only that they don’t plan, yet, to remove the locks.
Indeed. I think that we all agree that they sold a “finished” game while they knew that it was not.
Early access describe better what they sold us.
Thanks. I will try it I think.
I will add one new crafted weapon to my stats and try it.
Why can you not just stop repeating the same old lies over and over again?
Why can you not just stop misrepresenting what people actually say, just so that you can make the same stupid argument again and again?
And stop acting like an artificially introduced, constant need for equipment repairs is a solution to that “problem” that does not exist in the first place.
Many games have multiple systems with an end, which means that at some point, there is nothing left for certain currencies to be spent on. This is not an issue in many (if not all) of these games.
So please do not use your imagination to make it one.
It’s almost like VT2 had no “economy sink” and of all the complaints against the VT2 itemization system has nothing to do with that. You could make what you want, when you want pretty easily, and the biggest argument is you gotta spam the re-craft button instead of being able to pick from a menu.
I have over 1k hours in VT2 and the amount of materials I have piled up is insane, and tbh I prefer it that way. Lets me focus on just having fun with the core game, not menus & text telling me I have to interface with it.
As I said, there is nothing wrong with a system that has no economy.
But, then, you don’t need an economy.
FS wants to keep a sort of economy in the game. Good, bad? That’s not really the question.
Is there a better system? yes obviously.
But, FS has built this game with a sort of economy. And from the patch notes of the last update, it seems that they want to keep this.
This has to be taken in consideration if you want to propose a new system or a modification of the actual.
Anyways, we can propose anything but it should have chances to be taken into consideration. At the end of the day, it will be Fatshark that will decide what they want for their game.
I have taken it into consideration, and I consider it - boring.
The whole system, from the way items are, to the way you acquire them, to how they differ from one another, alllll the way to how you can modify them, at what cost, to what effect TAKES BREATH — to finally realize you didn’t have to put so much into it.
It’s a time sink, not a geopolitical treatise. And it’s sooo sooo boring.
So, having established that - my proposition is (well, was) simple: remove it. It’s unnecessary. It keeps the players who aren’t diehard tide fans out, and at most seems to be ignored by those who’d play anyway. It adds nothing to the game. Except a murderously arbitrary tax on the hours someone spends in the game. But no. We can’t. After several delays, and nearly a YEAR of development post launch, we’ve come to find out that we can’t remove it, since Muh Vision, or quite realistic development sinks and limitations won’t let it be.
Ok, understandable. Boring, but understandable. Then, here’s the next suggestion - remove the element that’ll most quickly and most broadly improve the shitty design, without hurting too many feelings and while there’s still something to retain/bring back - remove the locks. Have you heard that idea before somewhere? Hmm…
After many months of internal deliberation, FS decided not to do that, moved some numbers around and left the door for future reworks open, because it’s a journey, you see. I’m guessing it might’ve had something to do with this Skill Tree elephant in the chatroom, about which the topic is about… Since apparently THAT’S what they were working on…
my viewpoint is I want the crafting to be a supplement for the raw gameplay. I’ve noticed a lot of people seem to enjoy crafting being its own system that you interface with and is kind of its standalone source of entertainment, which is fair if that’s what you like but I personally don’t enjoy it at all. I want crafting to exist as a way to add variety to playing the core game, not as its own entity to sink time into.
I see no issue with just being able to craft what I want when I want because I personally feel I get more rewarding gametime if I go “hey I want to try this build out”, go make it, and then play the game that way for X amount of hours. Then maybe I want to try a different build with the same weapon, or a different weapon. I get more entertainment & variety, and I get them through actual gameplay. The more complicated you make crafting, the more you add progressions, and constraints, the more time I have to spend looking at menus and clicking on buttons and just looking at bars go up, just so then I can play the game how I feel like playing. That to me just sucks.
If all that happens every time I make a thread is that Ralendil proposes ideas that are only fun to Ralendil and literally nobody else and the rest of the forum fails to convince him of anything because he fails to see reason, I’m gonna just leave and wait.
S’why I think crafting materials may be the answer. The time you spend sifting through shop weapons to find the right blessings and perks gets replaced with actually playing the damn game and winning crafting materials that let you quickly and easily modify your weapon to how you want it to be.
Not gonna lie, the fact that the crafting is almost entirely detached from the game loop is a really f*cking weird game design decision.
Makes me think that like the skill tree it was a temporary stop gap because they couldn’t finish their actual plan in time.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, the current crafting system I’m convinced is some placeholder system they put in because they ran out of time.
The class system rework is very strong evidence of that. Their pre-release statements on classes and what they wanted to do, looked absolutely nothing like what was released. In fact, almost the opposite. But this update looks exactly like what they were talking about initially. And they also said they were basically working on this since the beginning alongside everything else. So this class system is clearly something they put in as a placeholder so they could keep working on their original design.
The crafting system is nothing like what they said during pre-release - again, literally in some cases the opposite of what they said. This being the exact same situation as the classes, I don’t think is a coincidence. Catfish also specifically said they were going to look to continue working on crafting even after this last tweak they did. I think there’s a very solid chance that crafting will also get a full re-work as the class system did.
Of which we’ll probably see in 2024. Because FS develops at FS pace.
I really would like that we could add a signature… it would save me to repeat things to people that just want to just disagree to disagree with me.
As I said… you can propose everything, but you have to take into consideration what the game designers want for their game.
They want a sort of economy, and they want to keep the locks.
Now, you can propose a total new system or you can propose to amend the actual system. However you will have no chance to see implemented something that is going against what they want to keep without rebuilding entirely the system.
Until now, what is proposed is remove the locks, let the economy they designed die.
You can achieve that with a simple screen like in Starship trooper where you choose what you want as weapon for the mission. You don’t need to keep all the economy behind the scene. Nothing wrong with that.
In other words, cause it seems a lot have real difficulties to understand what I think about crafting.
I DO NOT CARE OF CRAFTING, GAME NEEDS BALANCE. Crafting is not what makes the game fun or not, however the lack of balance is what makes the game too much repetitive. In fact, to be totally honest, I do not care of what they could do with the crafting system, they can even remove it and I would not care of it… if they give me a balance in this game that has none.
So many weapons that have no purpose, so many blessings useless or bugged…
I perfectly understand that there are people that have difficulties to find an excellent weapon, it is often cause they try to craft things they find at Brunt and get garbage as a result. But, why so many bad “rolls”? cause 80% of the blessings are unwanted on our weapons. This is not that are not fun to play with, this is cause they are not balanced with the ones that are “meta”.
Totally agree with this sentence… especially cause I see that too few blessings are good.
Boltgun? shattering impact + pinning fire…
Shredder autopistol? blaze away + pinning fire
Combat axe? BM mandatory (you can use something else, but you loose lot of DPS). Best second blessing, headtaker.
Etc.
Too many blessings that are or bad or totally useless. Too few blessings that are really too good.
As a result, we all use the same blessings / weapons. This limits the possibility to vary our gameplays.
Too much time… we agree on this.
I wait for a dagger 375+… cause Brunt is not a solution to find a good weapon.
You have to craft several weapons just to get something close to what you want. Not fun at 30 minutes per mission, especially cause you need 2 damnation missions to craft 1 weapon (not even talking with lower difficulties).
I won’t lie, I don’t like how they designed the system where you have to learn a blessing to reuse it. But let’s push to the end, I would not have liked either the system they planned before that.
