Yet another Witch Hunter thread

[Silverquick]

@Sasa

@Silverquick

That doesn’t address anything I just told you.

Demonstrably showing that you are wrong on multiple accounts, undermining your point by pointing out it’s based on falsehoods?

The Rapier Block cancel is a hell of a lot faster than the Falchion by the way… it takes two seconds to go into the game and see that.

Yeah and you will see that it’s not. You can attack → block → attack on the falchion before even the shields fully show up. The rapier is not able to do that, it’s block has a much longer mininum holding time.

Where I don’t see it,

I directly pointed out where you exaggerated, and where you never took into account the actual weapon swings and character movement in your theory that requires it to work… nor did you account for the base of only two targets damaged by both weapons despite a 3rd staggered by the Falchion… nor the Rapiers greater speed… nor the Falchion’s greater damage that gets negated in a Horde by WHC’s Deathknell for instant kills on horde mobs.

And why the Falchion cannot keep up with the Rapier in WHC’s hands any way shape or form in a horde in comparison to the WHC using the Rapier.

EDIT: Methinks you might play too much Zealot and Bounty Hunter… and not enough WHC. Hence why your theory breaks down.

[Sasa]

@Silverquick

I directly pointed out where you exaggerated, and where you never took into account the actual weapon swings and character movement in your theory that requires it to work…

I did take into account the actual weapon swings, the difference was just that i was aware of the falchions near instant block cancel.

nor did you account for the base of only two targets damaged by both weapons despite a 3rd staggered by the Falchion…

But that’s just wrong. The falchion has a damage cleave of 11.8, a stagger cleave of 9.4.
A slaverat has a hitmass of 2. Meaning it damages 6 of them and staggers 5.
Rapier has 7.07/5.66 respectively, which is why it damages 4 and staggers 3.

Like just stop when you are proven wrong.

nor the Rapiers greater speed…

But i did, which is why I brought up the rapiers 20% speed advantage.

nor the Falchion’s greater damage that gets negated in a Horde by WHC’s Deathknell for instant kills on horde mobs.

Except for 2 things: The falchion gets it too, allowing it to deal massive damage to marauders.
It only applies to the 1st enemy hit, as the rapiers damage on any subsequent ones is too low.

EDIT: Methinks you might play too much Zealot and Bounty Hunter… and not enough WHC. Hence why your theory breaks down.

I actually play WHC exclusively on salt. Although at this point i am fairly certain you don’t really know what you are talking about, because you were stating so many factually wrong things.

[Silverquick]

@Sasa

@Silverquick

I directly pointed out where you exaggerated, and where you never took into account the actual weapon swings and character movement in your theory that requires it to work…

I did take into account the actual weapon swings, the difference was just that i was aware of the falchions near instant block cancel…

No it doesn’t, I can go into the game and see that for myself.

Its not near instant. Its not even instant. Its good, but not nearly like you’re describing.

Either way your numbers are still based on a specific power level I saw the charts on it too. But take a level one with no power level on each weapon, and line up your targets to see how many are actually damaged.

I did that in Beta, its how I knew how many were actually damaged vs how many were actually hit with the base weapons.

Its how I knew what actually got damaged vs what was hit and staggered with no damage… and no power level.

But I digress here…

I have already gone through how the weapons get used and how you have to move with them to actually hit the number of targets you want to with higher power level.

Next we go into the abilities and how they got nerfed in BETA and why the WHC is a victim of overnerf on top of the overnerf on the weapons.

[Silverquick]

Animousity:
The WHC Ult, was originally 100% Crit rate and 8 second duration… and had a CD of 3 minutes…

YEAH a 3 minute CD was justified very powerful Ult… as each hit during that 8 seconds was a kill for WHC (due to Killing Shot)… but now its ONLY +20% and 6 seconds. So there’s no excuse at this point for a 3 minute CD… not when you have Pyro launching Burning Head every 40 seconds and wiping out a field of enemies or one shotting CWs… or Kruber Footknight knocking down everything in its path every 30 seconds. If they were going to nerf it that bad… it needs the duration knocked down to 1 minute.

Charmed Life
Originally only 10% bonus dodge and useless…

Boosted to 20%… and still insignificant. Why?
Dodge with this selected… vs not selected… the total distance of the dodge is only one character space difference… ie stand Saltz next to himself and that’s how much difference it is… so its not going to ever get you out of trouble. And normal dodge isn’t that much different. Sure its a little bit more dodge distance… and noticable now, unlike prior… but still not significant enough to change anything.

Abjure Temptation
Increases power by 15% when the party holds at least one Grimoire.

Used to be 25%… not sure why this got nerfed… it requires someone in the party to have a Grimoire… and if the person dies with the Grimoire… you lose the bonus. So you could be going half the level without any skill in this slot, grab a Grimoire and then be killed 2 seconds later and you lose ALL of it. So it was incredibly situational in the first place… now… its highly questionable as to why you’d even take it. It used to be a gamble… now… its a gamble for nothing.

Marked for Death
Witch-Hunt grants 10% increased attack speed for 4 seconds when taggable enemies die.

(Used to be 15% if I remember right)… and the duration was 5 seconds. Which actually allows you the time to take advantage of the attack speed. While 10% is still significant… the nerf to 4 seconds means its gone very quickly. Still good, but not like it used to be and too short to take advantage of because it requires killing a tagable enemy first… why this was nerfed to 4 seconds is beyond me. Even if they did nerf it to 10%… they could have just left it at 5 seconds.

Wild Fervor
This used to increase Crit Chance by 15% for 5 seconds after killing a tagable enemy…

Nerfed to 8% for 4 seconds when taggable enemies die. Again it was situational upon someone killing a tagable enemy… and only lasted 5 seconds in the first place… When we are talking other jobs with +25% power under certain conditions that are a LOT longer than 4 seconds… why in the hell did this get nerfed like that?

Justice’s Bounty
Originally recovers 5 Temp health for the party when taggable enemies die.

Nerfed to 2 Temp Health for the party… making it completely worthless to even use.

You would literally have to kill Tagable enemies JUST as fast as you kill Horde Mobs… JUST to get enough to even sustain ONE hit at Champ and Legend level. And then it will disappear shortly after… No way in Hell will that ever happen in the first place, because EVEN on Legend you won’t find the 10-20 Tagable enemies you need to kill (and as fast as horde mobs) THEN take a Hit… AND it will disappear so fast its questionable as to whether the 2 temp health you gained will give ANY value at all before it expires.

At least if it WERE 5 health… at 100 health you could take ONE hit at Champion level by killing 5 Tagable enemies very quickly… forget it on Legend. Maybe killing 10 quick tagables as fast as Horde Mobs AND then taking a hit before it disappears MIGHT happen… and there’s enough residual that it would last and not instantly disappear the minute the party gets it.

But at 2 health per taggable? No way in hell… it will disappear long before you ever even take a hit.

Back in Beta we TRIED to get this pushed to Normal Health at least with 2 points per taggable for REAL health it could give the same benefit the Waystalkers passive party regen does… as it stands…because its so miniscule its long gone before you ever use it.

As it stands its one of the LEAST understandable nerfs to the WHC.

[Sasa]

@Silverquick

No it doesn’t, I can go into the game and see that for myself.

Its not near instant. Its not even instant. Its good, but not nearly like you’re describing.

I am just going to record it to prove you wrong, because i can clearly attack after blocking before even the stamina shields are fully displayed, while the rapier cannot do that.

Either way your numbers are still based on a specific power level I saw the charts on it too. But take a level one with no power level on each weapon, and line up your targets to see how many are actually damaged.

600 hero power on legend difficulty. What on earth are you trying to balance this around? 5 hero power and legend difficulty? And even then it’s wrong because the damage cleave is higher than the stagger.

[CragHack]

Well this thread has veered wildly off course into the internet match of the century.

[Skeleth]

I remember dodge bonus being 110% in early beta.
Falchion and rapier are both good for horde clear but with falc you clear the horde faster and thats very important.

I wouldnt not like to see boosting any of these 2 weapons because that would boost Zealot and BH aswell. They should only balance the rest of the weapons and rebuild WHC talents and ulti.

I have nearly 200h with WHC and still enjoy the game.

[Silverquick]

@Skeleth

I remember dodge bonus being 110% in early beta.
Falchion and rapier are both good for horde clear but with falc you clear the horde faster and thats very important.

I wouldnt not like to see boosting any of these 2 weapons because that would boost Zealot and BH aswell. They should only balance the rest of the weapons and rebuild WHC talents and ulti.

I have nearly 200h with WHC and still enjoy the game.

Mine is almost 200th too this point… and thats after taking a break for a month for the game.

Falch only clears a horde faster if you’re not good at headshots,

Rapier with deathknell literally one shots the horde mobs and the strokes on the Rapier are much flatter than the Falch. Its why you can literally move and walking speed through a horde with Rapier, where you’re limited to side to side movement with the swings of the Falchion to get the number of targets cleaved at high power level.

But without its AP (which was nerfed)… Falch is no longer comparable to the Rapier. At least not for WHC.

Falchion having its AP nerf removed wouldn’t have that much effect on Bounty Hunter since they kill Elites and Armored with Ranged, not melee. but it would assist both WHC and Zealot.

And restore a capability that was removed and should not have been.