Would people like Vermintide 1 style crafting?

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide Gameplay Feedback
1

I’d like the crafting system to change but there’s a lot of discussion on it. From what I read around, people want more plasteel, diamantine to have a purpose, break locks, removal of lower tiers, and a buncha other stuff…

So with vermintide 1 crafting at the Shrine of Solace you could forge, offer, or invocate.

Forge: You forge random weapon, a random melee weapon, or a random ranged weapon. Don’t really need this as we have brunt’s RNG to deal with.

Offer: reroll all 3 traits (blessings in darktide). You have the option to keep your old rolls or go with the new rolls.

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Invocate: reroll trait percentages. Would be the equivalent of tiers in darktide. Seems random. If the % roll is lower than your current then you keep your current, otherwise you change to the higher %.

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I figure I’d mention this as it has both RNG and usage of plasteel and diamantine. Basically, the way I see it is:

  • Upgrading our weapons wouldn’t change.
  • Perks have their own Offer and Invocate reroll using plasteel.
  • Blessings have their own Offer and Invocate reroll using diamantine.

I’m not sure about doing this for perks because of breakpoints. I’m not too bothered about blessings because they’re just buffs in my eyes.
But this achieves:

  • Removal of locks.
  • Good stat rolled weapons aren’t bricked coz of crappy RNG locking you out.
  • Diamantine having a use.
  • RNG trying to fish for combos and max % rolls.
  • You’d still have multiple weapons for different combinations.

The main negatives with our current darktide version

  • You can’t freely change your (two non-locked) perks/blessings to a max stat roll.
  • Random chance for max stats.

I’ve never invocated to a max stat before. Also I’d hope rerolling would give a random perk/blessing of equivalent stat, but the only oddity is + stamina perk. However, both vermintide 1 and 2 had red weapons. So the solution would be to get red weapons in darktide. Then plasteel + diamantine reroll them to the way you want.

P.S. Did I just download a 50GB game for pictures? Yes. Yes I did.

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No, invocate was complete aids, all 3 games crafting systems are mid

vermintide 1 being the worst, darktide second worst, vermintide 2 better but still mid

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vermintide 1 players only wants one thing, and its fuccing disgusting

(endless waves game mod, with crafting materials as rewards)

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Feeding materials into a reroll machine is no less asinine than anything in Darktide IMO. Really the only thing about VT1 gear and crafting anyone looks back on fondly is the contract board for guaranteed red acquisition. The rest of it ranges from mediocre (rerolling traits and blessings) to god awful (weapon acquisition through dice roll at end of map).

I really don’t think Darktide’s system is fundamentally worse than any of its predecessors. The numbers are just tuned super wonky and there are still too many needles barriers to getting something you want. Like up Brunt’s average item quality by 20-40, and add a way to remove locks and bam, the system is instantly pretty approachable and progress fairly reliable. And that’s far from the only way you could approach it to make it better. They could do nothing but change a bunch of numbers tomorrow and make it at least palatable to 95% of the player base so I really don’t see a reason to keep proposing redesigns to the whole system.

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Of all the crafting systems so far I prefer Weaves, even if the actual game mode is hot garbage.

What makes weaves superior to the other systems is that all progress is additive. Every bit of currency you feed into the system puts you one step closer to being able to craft items with whatever properties you want. There is no time wasted by RNG because there is no RNG.

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Yeah I don’t think darktide’s crafting is worse. We can effectively make our own reds. I’m perfectly fine if fatshark upped Brunt’s quality and we got more plasteel per mission (or use less for upgrading).

I also kinda do miss the red weapon bounty boards. Those were fun but not something I’d want to do to grind out for better crafting – as in, right now we have Melk’s and I wouldn’t want that to take longer.

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Frankly I’ve asked this question because it removes locks, but also keeps RNG.

To be honest, I don’t want RNG.

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there’s no point to vermintide 1 crafting if you aren’t using vermintide 1’s weapon design approach.

and i mean i’d rather they did that than this “just like an MMO” bullcrap, cater to the game mechanics over the fanbase but we have what we have.

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No way, I hated the V1 crafting. Im not even very keen on V2 crafting.

Just remove the locks and the system currently in Darktide will be the best yet imo.

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How they can build a crafting system that superior in just about every way from the previous ones, and then just go “lol nope” and go back to pressing the RNG button is completely beyond me.

The only explanation I can think of is that it wasn’t grindy enough.

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I’d take a 10x price increase on everything in the game if the RNG were entirely removed.

The only thing worse than an incessantly long grind is an incessantly long random grind.

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I’m not sure about 10x, but it’s hard to imagine a deterministic system feeling worse than a random one.

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I’d obviously prefer less than that, but yeah, literally. 10x the cost for a totally deterministic system would be better than what we have. 100k dockets for a 380 allocated exactly how the player wants it, 10k plasteel and diamantine to control all perks and blessings. The latter is a bit steep, but yeah, still better than what we have.

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Only thing I’ve gathered from replies here VT1 crafting sucks and remove locks. I was mainly looking at the functions provided and not the end goal.

In VT1 you reroll blessing and can rng roll to increase % bonus. Perks didn’t exist. The chance to increase %s sucked tho.

In VT2 you could only reroll perks and blessings – but you could only use 1 blessing anyway. There is no way to increase perk %s and blessings are fixed. Half the system wasn’t a bother. If it’s the weave system I’m unfamiliar with it.

We already know darktide’s but only want to point out that we can potentially craft red equivalents. The main grievance is locks.

End goal for me is to just have a decent rolled weapon. I’d rather play the game than grind for perfect or have a ton of loot. Though honestly, I’d try to perfect roll my fav weapon or two if I had the resources. Bare minimum change for me is to just give more resources or lessen resources consumed for crafting. It’s a real slog since matches seem to average 30min for me.

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I still would prefer that every weapon be salvageable by spending crafting materials.

I’m maybe romantic, but try to imagine keeping your first weapon set (f.e – shovel and autogun) you got and just increasing it’s potential…
You may not be using it anymore. Maybe you found another combo. But it’s still there, waiting to be used or kept as a memento.

As Vet and Psyker I’ve dismantled them for blessings, so I could start my collection.

I believe I will keep the one’s I’ll get as an Ogryn and Zealot.
There has not been a day I’m not regretting letting them go…

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This is the way

18

is this a reference to another game I don’t know

Anyway, I think the bigger question behind crafting is what purpose it should serve. Darktide’s crafting system strikes me as sort of a placeholder; a thing built without a terribly high amount of thought put into it to fill the space until later.

Before everyone piles on Fatshark for making something include a lot of grinding, it’s worth noting that lots of grinding isn’t an entirely anti-consumer design choice. It’s only “grinding” if you, personally, subjectively, don’t really want to be doing it. If you do, or at least don’t mind it, then it’s called “making tangible progress towards a concrete goal,” and that can be an important part of the experience for a lot of players. Some may just play the game because the game is fun, but lots of people start to get restless if there’s not a tangible reward to look forward to (As someone positively riddled with deep self worth issues and anxiety, I can appreciate a long grind because it ticks a box in my head that makes me feel like I’m achieving something. It enhances a game I already find just a lot of fun to play.) Both of these views are valid but they can unfortunately get in each others’ way when it comes to crafting and weapon customization.

My assumption is that what the fun having players primarily want out of a crafting system is the ability to customize and improve their equipment in such a way that they can very precisely create a build they have fun playing. Correct me if I’m wrong and you want something else. And, as stated earlier, what goal chasing players want is a very long progress bar to fill up. Where the two run into each other is that group 1 gets annoyed that they have to spend a huge amount of time getting gear that’s any good.

On the assumption that Fatshark does want to extend player longevity through a long grind, either sinisterly for the money or charitably for the reward dopamine, and that a crafting system will therefore inevitably involve a very long time investment: I can agree with the others in this thread sharing the sentiment that RNG is the devil. However, have to say that Invocate was probably the least horrible implementation of random chance based equipment improvement I’ve ever seen. It was possible to dump an enormous amount of time and resources into an item if you wanted to maximize a weapon’s stat, which it made clear was probably only worth a handful of percentage points at best, and that was boring and annoying like any random number system would be, but crucially, it gave you a high chance to at least get a decent number.

That might be the secret to bridging the gap between what the two types of players want. If it’s fairly easy to customize gear in any way you want, and fairly cheap to improve it to the point that it’s Good Enough, then it won’t feel like you’re being forced to wade through extra hours and hours of grinding before you can get the thing you actually want.

It could then possibly be exorbitantly expensive to maximize your gear, pumping up the values from 75% to 80%, 4.5% crit chance to 5% crit chance, and so on. These are still gains, and once you maximize all your gear it could make a bit of difference, so eventually reaching that point is still a real reward, but generally this wouldn’t really noticeably impact your performance in game, and so it could be pretty safely ignored if you don’t feel like grinding. Then it would only be annoying to gambling addicts and obsessive people who get anxiety from things being even slightly incomplete, but like, I dunno how to help people like that except to say go to therapy like I do.

So basically,
Break the locks, let us improve the weapon’s Modifiers and the numbers on perks and blessings, and just make the resource costs start to exponentially increase once they get up past like 70%.

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It’s referring to another crafting system that Fatshark has implemented previously in Vermintide 2 but tied (shackled) to the relatively unpopular Winds of Magic mode.

It also feels like Fatshark learned the wrong lessons from it, Athanor wasn’t popular because Winds of Magic wasn’t popular; it wasn’t because it was a deterministic weapon building system, it was because they wanted people to completely restart a weapon grind for a sub-mode that outside of earning upgrade material from normal missions otherwise didn’t interact with the rest of the game at all and Fatshark thought that having 100 separate matchmaking queues was a good idea.

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You did it, Fatshark. You’ve created such a crappy crafting system that it makes us regret that literal kick in the teeth that was Vermintide 1’s crafting. Bravo.