Witch Hunter Captain Rebalance

I agree. I’ve come to realise that not all player tools should be proactive. If players are never forced to react to enemeis, then enemies become simple stat checks like can I stagger this, do I oneshot this etc. Players should be forced to block sometimes, as otherwise it simply removes a gameplay dimension and mechanic, and having a talent (like Riposte) that works with that fact isn’t bad. It’s simply overshadowed by the extreme power of Flense, and Deathknell because of the low stagger resistance of enemies. Enemies need to be able to do things. The best medicine is preventative, but not all medicine is nor should be.

It’s a balancing act - players should be forced to be on their backfoot sometimes and have to react to enemies, but should also be required to be proactive to make their way through a level. This can come into play when you have a high dps & low survivability career (proactive) and a support/tank/clutch career (reactive) which ideally would need to play off each other’s strengths and not be able to solo the level. Currently though we can just have proactive dps and be fine, which I think is a problem.

Riposte only slows down gameplay because in the current patch we’re able to just ignore the individual characteristics of enemies through super high mobility, dps and stagger.

My personal issues with Riposte currently are:

  • Low stagger resistance results in allies that aren’t even stagger specialised rendering the talent irrelevant - this can be fixed with gameplay adjustments (this would also help out other talents that rely on blocking)

  • It’s not great vs Chaos Warriors. If it’s changed so that Riposte heavy attacks one shot them (currently requires tag+20% crit power+ 20 vs Chaos for the Rapier’s full charge heavy to one shot headshot) then it improves a lot.

  • The recoil from blocking powerful strikes from enemies is annoying. Immunity to recoil could either be added to Riposte or to the Parry trait.

What do you think of this:
“Blocking just as an enemy attack is about to hit no longer costs stamina nor causes recoil and causes your next melee attack within 2 seconds to be a 15% faster guaranteed critical hit. If this attack is a charged attack it will instantly slay a Chaos Warrior or Wargor on headshot.”
Personally I think it’s inelegantly overloaded with effects, but in backfoot situations it would be amazing for clutching.

Also, random idea, @anon75893681 how would we feel about Killing Shot only working on tagged enemies? Would help I Shall Judge You All a lot while still making the normal playstyles possible, just more difficult.

This would expand its use for boss dps from the Spawn, Mino and Troll to include the Rat Ogre while also making it more consistent against the Spawn. It’s a shame that it’s currently useless against a Rat Ogre after their initial running attack combo, so I’d be for this change even if it looked goofy.

Perhaps it could only be achieved by using both Riposte and Parry on your weapon, as a sort of added synergy (I would be fine with it not requiring Parry either).

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First thought that comes to mind that its even more loaded with effects but really the activation conditions are also pretty severe so I don’t see it being as abusable as something like “oh hey I’m just dodging and getting effects”
But ye generally I like something like this a lot more in comparison. Honestly the 2 second window could be even longer in this kind of situation.

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So would it be fair to say that we would all prefer Riposte being improved as a talent instead of having it replace a passive or being combined with one of the other talents?

Edit: What should Chaos Warriors and Wargors be referred to as collectively? Putting Chaos Warriors and Wargors in the talent text makes it bulky. I was thinking of non-mansized enemies but that includes bosses as well, which would make it misleading.

I haven’t been keeping up, why do those two need to be referred to collectively? The only thing they have in common is having the super armor class on body. Aren’t Wargors considered a mansized enemy and vulnerable to Kill-Shot?

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Wargors are not considered mansized oddly enough. They have low health but Rapier crit lights do not instantly kill them on headshot (tested on Cata). On Legend the Rapier’s lights just do enough damage to kill them anyway with crit headshot.

I believe the super armour aspect is tied to it, as afaik on metal weaves SV get superarmour like Chaos Warriors and are likewise immune to Killing Shot.

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I’ve streamlined the main post, making it significantly less verbose. The passives are no longer changed. Riposte is kept where it is and receives a buff. Flense is nerfed. Other changes are listed in the main post and in its TL;DR section.

I’ve made several polls for various changes and idea.

Power of Sigmar
This unlisted passive increases headshot bonus damage by 25%, Should it be increased to 50% (from 25%) provided it is given a reduction in bodyshot damage of 12.5%, or would this be unfriendly to new players? WHC is Saltz’ first career.

  • Increase to 50% headshot damage
  • Increase to 50% headshot damage and add an effect of a 12.5% bodyshot damage decrease
  • It should not be changed

0 voters

Sigmar’s Charm
This unlisted passive increases crit chance by 5%. Should Sigmar’s Charm be removed or stay?

  • Sigmar’s Charm should be removed
  • Sigmar’s Charm should stay

0 voters

Deathknell
Should Deathknell reduce bodyshot damage by 12.5%?

  • It should
  • Yes, but only for melee attacks and not range
  • No

0 voters

Riposte
What should happen to Riposte?

  • Riposte should stay as a talent
  • Riposte should stay as a talent and be buffed
  • Riposte should become a passive
  • Merge Riposte with Deathknell and add a new talent

0 voters

Riposte and Power of Sigmar
Should both the headshot passive be buffed and Riposte made a passive?

  • Both changes should happen
  • Neither should occur
  • Only Riposte should be changed
  • Only Power of Sigmar should be changed

0 voters

Edit: Someone told me that the option “Neither should occur” was confusing. Sorry. It means Riposte should not be made a passive and Power of Sigmar should not be changed. “Only Riposte should be changed” refers to Riposte becoming a passive, and does not exclude Riposte being buffed.

##New Poll Options##

Killing Shot and Tagging
Should Killing Shot be changed to only work on tagged enemies?

  • Killing Shot should not be altered
  • Killing Shot should only work on tagged enemies

0 voters

Killing Shot and Riposte
Should Killing Shot and Riposte be merged into a passive so that Killing Shot is only active for Riposte crits and during Animosity?

  • Killing Shot and Riposte should be merged as a passive. Killing Shot should be active during Animosity and for Riposte crits.
  • Killing Shot and Riposte should not be merged.

0 voters

Part II of polls

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Another poll.

Killing Shot, Power of Sigmar and Deathknell Range
Should Killing Shot, Power of Sigmar and Deathknell affect range shots that have passed their effective range/first damage drop off point? They currently do.

  • No, they should not affect them
  • Yes, they should affect them as they do on the current patch

0 voters

I find these polls a bit pointless, because people mostly just vote for the option that means “Don’t change anything”

I can’t speak for all of the polls on this site, but in the case of these polls I think it’s more of a sign that some of my ideas are simply poorly thought out, which is useful (for me at least) to know.

I don’t entirely agree.

Your ideas mostly just aim to “fix” something that a big portion of people considers not broken.
So even if you suggest something awesome and truly unique, people will just say “Stop touching my Victor! I like him how he is NOW!”

You may be right. Using polls probably wasn’t the correct way to go about this. I understand why some are hesitant towards change, as WHC is, while in my opinion over tuned, a fully functional career with very few wasted talent spots

Some of the ideas in this thread may make interesting additions to other careers or future ones, though I bet Fatshark has some good careers coming up.

WHC is probably more so stacked than over-tuned.
I’d be happy with them just removing Flense to push him back into a true headshot/crit career.

I think WHC is fine as it is right now. He is not an easy career to play because even tho you have huge elite killing potential and boss damage, you can’t go berzerk on things. You need to play defensively and approach hordes clever because you will die as WHC if you make the smallest of mistakes.

His talents are mostly fine, but i would like to have Temp health on kill instead of cleave wich doesn’t do anything on WHC as far as his specialties go. There are decent amount of choices you can make in that talent tree like bleed, headshot bonus or cooldown, %100 crit.

Suggested nerfs here would completely cripple the career.

Buff the underperforming charaters instead, don’t nerf the working ones.

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But you want him to have temp hp on kill instead of cleave? Thats literally a nerf. shouldn’t we focus on other careers first, like you said?

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Considering the insta kills it might be a buff. That’s a lot of health for WHC to be getting quite often. It’s arguably more inline with WHC’s single target focus, though I am wary of such a change, even if I prefer Hunter’s Ardour myself.

Pretty confident it wouldn’t outperform cleave. Yes, with fervency it would be strong, but outside of that.

I don’t mind the other temp hp talent be replaced. idk even know what it is, is it the crits and hs give temp?

For some weapons it might be a slight nerf but considering your capacity for murder i think it could also work better in most cases.

But it mostly depends on what weapon you are using. For rapier ? Yeah i guess i can see how that would be a nerf. For a&f ? Nope, that is a big buff for that.

Why would it be better for axe falchion?

Because a&f is a heavy hitter and doesn’t pierce targets well enough, on the other hand rapier light attacks pierces decent amount of targets, so even when you are fighting hordes you are not actually utilizing cleave temp health %100. Right now i am using headshots and crits since you should always aim at head level it actually works better than cleave in my experiance, as long as you land headshots.

Another thing is, it is the fastest weapon in Saltz armory that can kill a CW, the moment you kill a cw you pump up to full health. It kills SV’s really fast even on headshot without crits, i think it is 2 heavies on cata(don’t think it was 3 headshots).

But in general temp health talents are usually situational. You might have situations where you get literally no elites or someone in your group is faster than you at killing elites. Health on kill is a bit greedy, but a really strong health generation with heavy hitter weapons.

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And it’s a dual wield so it can insta kill two targets. Against a SV/Beast pat that’s a lot of thp for WHC.

Crit/headshot has great synergy with Animosity, thp on demand almost, great for emergencies. For standard Cata (some deeds/modes e.g. FoW, Vanguard etc. are an exception) thp on cleave averages out over crit/headshot. Crit/headshot is superior for the 1h Axe (arguably is for the A&F and Rapier as well against Norscan hordes depending on how much one enjoys spamming pushes (push spam favours cleave thp)), and the more skillful talent, but cleave is consistent and easy.

On modded I believe for lower cleave weapons like the Rapier and the A&F crit/headshot is better depending on headshot %.

I’m not sure which weapon is the highest CW dps for WHC’s. For crit headshots the Rapier is the highest, but for non-crit headshots I think the Billhook is. The A&F is close but doesn’t reach their dps vs superamour, but it comes out on top when bodyshots are mixed in.

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