lvl 5 talents
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lvl 15 talents
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lvl 20 talents
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lvl 25 talents
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lvl 30 talents
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would be nice if you could leave a comment explaining why you use the talents you use.
thp on hit is WHC’s best thp talent so ofc i use it.
flence is the talent that suit all playstyles and have no negatives, i arent punished for not playing in a certain way.
duh? WHC have a lot of crit chance, assassin lets him do even more dmg then what he could without it, it also benefit weapons that are easier to get headshots with like rapier.
5% crit chance for the whole team helps both me and them.
allows me to push more often and play more aggressively
all his lvl 30 talents are ok/good. i stopped using i shall judge you since i dont know how long it lasts and if it stacks with similar effects. fervency and the unending hunt are the best ones imo.
Walking judgement, just best temp hp talent.
Flense has no negative effects, use this almost constantly, deathknell is fine aswell for single target.
Assassin mostly, on billhook i might use mainstay sometimes when i’m not headshotting and use alt attack into heavy, but 99 of the time i use assassin, even on billhook.
Wild fervour is just something i always chose, purely for team support, heretic sighted is also a fine talent but its mostly if you lack attack speed on slower weapons or are not using Swift slaying, or are solo’ing. Templars knowledge is just don’t see the appeal and it doesn’t seem like it has alot of impact, maybe for single target dps, but its not worth to take it imo.
But disclaimer, this row i just take because of what i’m used to, i might revisit it someday and actually test to see whats worth, especially with psuedo crit and stuff.
Cast away for me because i mostly use billhook and it allows me to not worry about the stam cost on the alt attack so much, also good for defense.
Charmed life is also a great talent, nothing wrong with it at all, i sometimes switch between those 2 depending on the weapon i’m using.
Always prepared doesn’t seem like a worth my pick to me, especially with the traits we have currently and also i mostly use crossbow and use conservative, and i’ll most likely run into ammo before i run out.
Unending hunt for me, personally the best talent for every situation. Fervency and i shall judge you all overlap heavily imo.
Walking judgement, I simply think the multiple enemies on hit is the best thp generating talent in the entire game and salts weapons generally combo well with it.
Flense is just no brainer, deathknell has antisynergy with his crit killing passive(imo) and riposte I just dislike in general.
Assasin is just more reliable and more damaging than mainstay in most cases, not to mention crits are common.
Actually torn here between Heretic sighted and wild Fervour but generally I do run the teamwide crit over attack speed. The attack speed is also pretty insane and combos well with some weapons so its not 100% clear cut here.
I like Charmed life even with billhook, I can totally understand why people like cast away, its obviously a strong choice but for me personally I’ve rarely used it.
Unending hunt is probably the best in most scenarios. Personally I just like Fervency for the deleting power. The way you can delete something like stormvermin patrol with fervency is absolutely insane if you can manage to hit those headshots. I really find there are few as powerful of temporary boost in terms of raw dps as fervency.
Hunter’s Ardour
I improve at headshots faster with it, and never will stop improving.
Riposte
I like it as a mechanic and will always prefer mechanic additions that increases complexity over flat stat buffs.
Assassin
I have to make up for not having Deathknell somehow. Can’t really make effective use of Mainstay with the weapons I prefer on WHC.
Heretic Sighted
I use it for specific Riposte speed breakpoints, the faster gameplay feels better and more responsive (to me) and because I’m selfish and value independence.
Charmed Life
I honestly just don’t enjoy spamming pushes and prefer reading and dodging (or parrying). I guess I just haven’t moved on from pre-WoM yet.
Unending Hunt
I used to prefer Fervency (particularly when I went through a phase of helping players get FoW completions) but I mostly play modded now and Unending Hunt is so consistent - just averages out so well when engagements take that long and there are multiple waves of elites.
Afaik the tag effect should last for 15s as that is what the tag effect normally lasts for.
My choices are mostly due to, it works well with axe&falchion. axe&falchion is the best heavy hitter Saltz has and it also dels decent amount of headshot damage considering your speciality it only makes sense to go with Hunter’s ardour. Flense works great with a&f, i would consider using Deathkneel with Rapier probably but due to tick damage beeing superior than flat damage increase Flense wins it for me. Assassin, this one really depends on what weapon you are using. Wild Frevor is good, but i am a bit greedy so %10 instant attack speed for myself helps me well enough to kill monsters and elites. Cast Away is superior over other options since stamina recovery is critical on higher difficulties. Fervency is best against monsters, Unending Hunt is best against mass hordes, you can swap this depending on the group, but when going in with randoms going with Fervency is my advice.
Wow I ended up with the most voted talent for every row. Didn’t realize it was so universally one-sided…
I use this setup on Cata with 2h sword (crit chance/attack speed/swift slaying), crossbow (crit chance/crit power/hunter), necklace (health/stanima/barkskin), charm (power vs. armored/attack speed/proxy) trinket (revive speed/crit chance/bomb damage radious)
It’s extremely versatile and easy to play.
My talent choices are a bit selfish (Heretic Sighted + Fervency) but that’s typically a rapier build.
Regarding Flense, like Mattie said it has no negative effects. It does feel like a really cheesy talent, I still use it on Billhook, Flail or Falchion builds.
I’ve recently found a love for Riposte on Greatsword; covers some of the weapon’s weaknesses.
2, 3, 3, 3, 1/2, 3
Enhanced Power because it works with both Flense and Ranged damage. You can STR and light spam Chaos Patrols with Rapier, and Power buffs from allies also increase it’s damage. And it’s a damage increase vs every type of enemy in general.
I mostly stack Power on everything now, other than a few Elite killing builds or axe-type Weapons.
Assassin if we’re lacking in Elite killing.
Unending Hunt, because it feeds your team 25% (30%) Crit Chance, 2-3x per Horde. It lets your team run more optimal Crit builds, such as GK with the Crit build, so he can melt everything with 1H Mace and Shield/Exe. Or allows them to drop Crit for CDR/defensive Stats.
You honestly have to enlighten me on where its usefull to have 7.5% ranged/melee power increase over 40%.
Enhanced power increases flense bleed by 0.25 damage per dot.
Unless you wanna reach some obscure ranged breakpoint or just range most of the time. why would you give up 40% melee damage for 7.5% increase? because it affects flense by 0.25dmg?
There’s a few cleave breakpoints. For the Rapier’s lights/A&F falchion’s lights it let’s it cleave Marauders without having to stagger them first. Makes horde management very consistent, where as it can be kind of dicey for the Rapier/A&F otherwise (requires lots of pushes and such).
For range breakpoints it lets the Crossbow bodyshot Packmasters at long distance with 20% Skaven + 20% Monsters. I haven’t used this much so I can’t say if it’s useful or niche for the Crossbow since it bodyshots at close range.
For BoP it lets it 1 shot headshot Packmasters at close range without having to have Deathknell with the same properties as the Crossbow bp above.
Pretty much what Velsix said.
This is AoE. It also increases your damage to enemies you’re not building for. WHC doesn’t get any Power whatsoever, and has a mechanic similar to BW, so it only makes sense to me to maximize it.
As I mentioned, if you play with an IB, GK, FK who grant Power, you melt Hordes without trying. My friend usually plays FK or GK, so that’s usually my job anyway (unless he’s SnM).
You also get the benefits of the Enhanced Power stagger damage, while also getting increased damage on your first hit.
With Unending Hunt, Hordes spend most of the time on the floor too, so stagger damage, and damage outside of headshots is better.
The only time Assassin is useful for me is if I’m the only CW killer. You can Light spam everything else with Rapier, or the other Weapons have more reliable and easy to land Armour damage, regardless.
I also prefer sustained damage to circumstantial damage. E.g. movesets making headshots only hit one enemy or relying on Crits.
Also I don’t always play for single breakpoints unless it’s a Cleave one or 2 shot on an Elite, since there are 3 other people. Obviously Range too.
Yes but it increases it by 0.25 damage? how is that worth. you need to hit an enemy 2 times to do 1 - 1.25 extra damage? While you lose out on (on rapier) 9 damage per light swing and like 20 damage per heavy. (on hs).
So ib’s power talents are super niche. you either block constantly or ult. With fk he has to be close to you, but that might be a bit more uptime then the ib one. Gk has the highest uptime but its rng.
so lets say you can have 17% increase in power, with sudden spikes from fk or ib. This would be a consistent 0.85 increase. If you had fk and gk, so 27% then its like 1.35 dmg increase per flense.
What enemies can you stagger with enhanced? Yea 7.5% over 40%. you are headshotting anyways on whc, or trying to. The increased crit chance aswell.
so having 7.5% increase in dmg for the 1-2 seconds a couple enemies are on the floor, is worth to take it over 40% increase outside of ult? Unending is like, 45-50 seconds?
That just doesnt seem worth it to me.
The range one i guess, but you still lose out on so much single target damage for one shot bp at close range? seems too niche to me.
That’s across every enemy you cleave, though. Not just one enemy. And I don’t have to rely on headshots, which are unreliable in a lot of situations anyway. The bleed stacks, and it doesn’t matter if it’s the first or 5th enemy, they’ll take that damage.
If I’m headshotting anything other than Chaos Warriors, I’m spamming lights for Crit 1- shot kills. On Hordes, Flense does the majority of the damage, as headshots and Crits are unreliable there too, unless you play something with directly horizontal attacks.
The increased headshot damage doesn’t seem as worthwhile on Hordes to me, and bodyshot Crits aren’t as reliable or worthwhile. You don’t lose 1shot headshot Crits with this build anyway, so you benefit from them regardless.
That’s what I play with.
Yes, but again, I don’t fight a single enemy a match, there’s lots to cleave. The bleed also stacks.
It’s not about a Stagger breakpoint, it’s about still benefiting for damaging staggered enemies without having to go for heads. It’s not the main source of damage, but it’s still a beneficial part of the build.
I’m talking about benefitting from S1, and S2 without needing a Crit or Headshot.
" 7.5% 29% 50.5% "
It’s just another benefit.
You’re chopping the damage into bits and not looking at the whole picture:
The only benefit i can see is those ranged bp’s, which are very, very niche anyway, espcially for what you give up for it.
Those cleave bp’s, but that also doesnt seem worth it to me, unless you maybe play exclusively falchion, even then.
Benefit from stagger damage? from your teammates? how is that a +, when assassin has this or even mainstay.
Isn’t mainstay better for this situation?
I thought enhanced power was applied before other buffs? or did they change it.
Assassin relies on headshots and/or stagger, Mainstay relies on the enemies being staggered, this doesn’t boost Flense or Ranged damage.
The point is that it’s a middle ground between Mainstay and Smiter, but with added damage to Ranged and Flense damage.
Assassin 0% 20% 40%
Assassin (hs or crit) 40% 40% 40%
Mainstay 0% 40% 60%
Enhanced Power 7.5% 29% 50.5% + Flense +Ranged
Both Assassin and EP are best for WHC. I just don’t like relying on Crits and dealing awful body damage. There’s too many situations where it’s all you can do.
No idea.
I know all that. thats why i said ‘isn’t mainstay better in this situation’. Referring to your situation where enemies are staggerd on the floor, one of the reasons you take enhanced power. Flense damage increase doesn’t seem worth it to me at all, but its all fine if you think its worth, i was just wondering.
If enhanced power doesn’t stack with power boosts from your team, then its even worse.
edit: didn’t mean to come accros in an attacking way. i do that sometimes.
There’s upsides and downsides to both. For that specific situation Mainstay probably would be, but I don’t run it on anything because you won’t deal more damage to unstaggered enemies. Other than if I’m playing with someone using a Shield/Conflag or a similar mechanic.
For Weapons like Rapier, which don’t get a huge amount of stagger, focusing on Flense or headshots makes more sense for sustained damage. I just find the Power more reliable in general.
Don’t see why it wouldn’t.
It’s pretty awkward for WHC with Assassin if IB ults. Having Enhanced Power, Flense and the IB team power buff mitigates the damage loss from the aggro switch pretty well, even on weapons like the Rapier. It also helps with boss aggro switching.
I still prefer Assassin, but I’ve seen videos of WHC Cata true solo runs with EP and the Rapier + Flense and it works well.
I’m confused. So its great to have when on aggro switch, but it works well on true solo? How much aggro switch do you have there?
I also tried playing with enhanced power flense on falchion/flail/Gs, combined it with fk power, and i didn’t notice anything. Unless this is specificly for rapier or trash enemies (or solo’s), this was pretty bad.
Also didn’t notice the cleave breakpoints on falchion you mentioned.
Also the fk power also increases flense when using assassin, so its a purely 0.25 dmg increase, regardless of how much power ur team stacks.