Things that could improve

There’s a few seperate specific things I’ve noticed, so I’ve decided to try to fit all of them in one Frankenstein’s thread. These opinions are based on Cata gameplay.

The temp HP Talent for multiple enemies hit e.g. Dryad’s Thirst, on Waystalker, is possibly the weakest THP generator, with the exception of 2H Swords/Exe Sword etc. It only really fits those very specific very high cleave weapons, and feels almost useless on a lot of other weapons. The lack of consistancy between THP generation across all weapons can sometimes be a little frustrating.

The 20% AoE shared heal Talent, e.g. Ariel’s Boon, on Waystalker, only ever feels useful on Ranger Veteran with the chance not to use healing Trait on neck. And even then THP generation is preferable. This is because there’s so much unavoidable damage in the game. You’re left without a buffer, unless you’re playing with Merc and Unchained, both running THP Ults.

Level 25, line 5. Asrai Focus (20% Ult cooldown reduction), just feels way too strong compared to the other Talents on that row. The only other Talent worth taking in very specific situations would be Fervent Huntress (15% Move Speed on Special kill). Asrai Focus can still arguably offer more survivability than FH can anyway.

Kernous’ Reward (Ammo on Special kills), is also the only worthwhile choice on the last row because of how strong it is.

Level 10, line 2. Focused Spirit (10% increased power, resets on damage taken) is a great Talent, but can be taken away by friendly fire. This can be a huge issue when playing with Sienna, as her playstyle makes at least some friendly fire inevitable.

Level 25, line 5. Heart of Oak (15% HP increase). This Talent is just a no brainer. It takes any choice out of this row.

Unchained: Level 5, Line 1. Reckless Rampage (multi hit THP generation) Sienna doesn’t really have any weapons which make this Talent worthwile, because of the THP generation and low amount of cleave. On Kill THP may even be preferable.

Level 20, Line 4. Numb to Pain (5-15% stacking damage reduction on burning Overcharge). As Unchained gains so much Overcharge from damage taken on higher difficulties, the other two Talents are always preferable. *

This is more about his Talents effecting his playstyle in general. Taking the chance of Pots/Bombs dropping is great, and his chance not to use most items makes him a really good support. The problem is that for him to work optimally it requires other people to be paying attention to items, and to understand why he needs to be given them when possible. Sometimes (especially in QP), you will be ignored for the majority of the match, and be pretty much useless, as depending on your build, you rely on playing supportively for him to even be worth playing.

Other than using chat to ask, and playing him with people who know what you need, it’s sometimes frustrating to play, especially when people don’t trade for whatever reason. I’m not sure of an easy fix for this, but it can interfere with other’s gameplay too much if not on VOIP.

After playing him more, he really does feel weak on Cata, as only certain builds can make him even slightly viable, and they’re not always fun. He takes way too much damage, mainly because most of the melee weapons are so slow, and also have very little impact. Beastmen especially are so aggresive that he just can’t deal with them.


Level 25, row 5. Black Market Supplies (30% more Ammo). This may be down to preference, but I find the other two Talents on this row for Dodge range and damage reduction to be much better over all. And even if you play as a Special killer, Repeater Handgun is his best option and has enough ammo anyway.

Seems like this one is just preference.

However, running Barkskin, 40% dmg reduction Ult and the damage reduction on Paced Strikes can make him near invincible sometimes. Even being able to Trade with Minotaurs.

While more weapons are viable than ever, there are still some that feel like they could do with some touching up.

1H Axes:
All of the 1H Axes feel like they need lots of stats and Talents to make them work, meaning they consume too much of your build to make worthwile.

Zealot, Slayer, and HM can make the best use of them, and even they have better and more versatile options.

The most useful build I’ve found for a 1H Axe is Slayer with Dual Maces/1H Axe, to quick switch and push-attack Elites inside Hordes. It works surprisingly well, but even then, it’s hard to maintain Trophy Hunter stacks, and the Dual Maces make up for it’s lack of Cleave.

It’s hard to say how best to improve the 1H Axe because the biggest downside is cleave, which leaves Saltspyre, and Elf (without hag) to get a little overwhelmed in big Hordes.

The mobility slowdown while attacking being changed could be a good start. Increasing Crit Power, Crit Chance or headshot damage to make it stronger vs Chaos Warriors or Bosses could be another good change. Another suggestion would be to buff the Push-Attack damage in some way, so that it’s even better at dealing with Elites in Hordes like my Slayer example.

At the minute it feels like and Elite Killer, but most of the Careers have better options for that.

Mining Pick:
This weapon is just too slow for IB, and takes up too much of your build on RV to make it work. Slayer also has better options, but it can be a good choice for Boss/Chaos Warrior killing. It also seems to get stuck against too many Elites, Shield users and dense Hordes with Elites in.

My suggestion would be to make the push-attacks deal damage do Shielded enemies, not only does it make sense with the Pick’s shape, but would make it a little less useless in those situations.

Saltspyre’s Flail:
Requires too heavy of a build into it, and doesn’t have the same versatility as other weapons. I feel like it’s most similar to the 1H Maces, but doesn’t have the same Elite killing power without eating up all of your Talents and item stats. It also lacks the mobility of 1H Maces. I’d like to see it get some Elite Cleaving and cleaving in general, so it can act as more of a defensive/frontline weapon, as Saltspyre doesn’t really have any others. This could help it synergize with Flense.

Fire Sword:
This is one of my favourite weapons right now, because of the Unchained Talents. While being extremely good with mobility and survival however, it seems lacking in Chaos Warrior and Boss killing damage. On Legend this wasn’t so noticeable, but since Cata and the higher Elite density/health pools, it’s extremely noticable, and sometimes leaves you feeling useless. Especially if Patrols are pulled, or you’re left as a lone survivor vs Bosses/Elites.

One suggestion would be to make the L3 poke chain from 2 charged > light, and increasing the damage/headshot damage/crit slightly, similarly to Krubers 1H Sword.

Another would be to somehow increase the Boss damage to keep it as an anti unarmoured.

Other than mobility, this weapon doesn’t really offer anything other weapons can’t do 100x better. The Elite damage is annoying, because you have to do C1 before every bit of damage. This leaves on kill THP generation Talents a little useless because of the gap in which others can score the kill. This is a problem because fast Elite killing is so necessary in higher difficulties.

My suggestion is to make the Push-attack chain into C2, so that you can spam wombo-combo Elites/Bosses.

Sienna’s 1H Sword:
Unlike Kruber, she only gains certain bonuses to her melee through a lot more Talents and Stats. This means that unlike him, she struggles against Elites.

1H Sword Merc is one of my favourite builds, and it’s only really viable because you can Shotgun/Shoot Elites when it’s really needed. Even though he has lots more Melee stats, he still needs that extra bit of help vs Elites. This is where Sienna’s 1H Sword suffers (against bosses too).

I’m unsure of any suggestions as it’s the same profile as Kruber’s Sword, but I will point out that it doesn’t offer any fire effects like her other weapons. An even bigger buff to the L3 on hers alone could possibly help.

Kerillian’s 2H Sword:
It just doesn’t offer the same Cleave as the other 2H Swords, and the Charged attacks feel too slow with little pay off. Another issue is that the light attacks are all upwards attacks, so you can’t passively benefit from headshots as almost every other weapon can.

While still able to reach 1 hit Breakpoints on most Elites/Specials, the slowness of the reload makes it far less viable, mainly because of high Elite/Special density. Faster reload/Fire rate weapons are much more viable. It’s also very unforgiving if you miss.

No idea how to fix this, as making it have any faster reloading/fire rate would make it broken. Maybe a faster reload on misses could help, or another buff to Boss damage (on Bardin’s at least). Another suggestion would be to give it higher Ultimate generation, as stealth gives you the space you need to get shots off.

It just feels slightly lacklustre in general, and could do with some help against Chaos Warriors/Armoured.

General observations:

  • Unchained’s Overcharge can still see some really spooky spikes on Cataclysm. *
  • Shade feels extremely overtuned and overly Versatile with Dual Wield weapons, even being able to solo the majority of enemies in Fortunes of War (cata)
  • Axe and Falc still feels slightly too strong
  • Handmaiden’s Ultimate for Crit and Bleed (not sure if that one is working yet) both put her in difficult positions and enemies she Ults into will instantly attack at her- also using Ult and then blocking in front of a Horde does not give you any Crit chance at all, so those two Ults can feel kind of weak when compared to some of the other careers
  • Enemies still seem to aggro to the host more, so any small mobs that get stuck behind you will usually always stab the host in the back. This can be incredibly frustrating and annoying
  • Attacks meant for other people should do less damage to others who are hit imo, Mauler swipes and sprint attacks meant for others don’t give wooshes if they get led into you, so it seems unfair that other people can cause your death
  • Enemies hitting from inside Elites is still an annoying issue, especially if Elites stack. Dying to a Black Rat overheading from behind a Chaos Warrior is not uncommon
  • Auto Aim Ults (WS/Pyro) are still not going for locked-on targets
  • Boss aggro + Specials + Elites + Horde at the same time is extremely hard to deal with. Sometimes you pull the Boss out of the way, only to get waterfalled or Special bombed with no chance of surviving
  • As host you seem to get tracked more, and enemies feel more likely to sprint attack when you’re dodge dancing. Noticed this when my friend finally bought a new PC so he wouldn’t crash and started hosting :smile:
  • Beastmen climbing animation into attack animation is really short, not sure if this is intentional

Hunstman clunkiness thread:
He’s viable, but awkward.

Reward System:

Ranger Veteran:


For me this is the best trait. With repeater and scrounger you can shoot a lot. Specials and armoured fall down without problem and this is a must for me because I use mace and sword

1 Like

oh a good list! I´ll share my thoughts about it.

  • Weavebound the temp health on cleave talent for waystalker does indeed feel hella weak when using relevant weapons vs using Dryad´s thirst and its relevant setups.

Temp health on cleave talents seem kinda weak across all careers or is it just me imagining things?

  • Asrai´s Focus (25) is indeed too strong, as is Blood shot (10)
  • Talent “ricochet” has no known use as far as i know, nor does “spirit arrows” or “kurnous reward”, they simply sacrifice too much or accomplish too little to be of use.

I suspect this is the case for many talents across many careers though.

  • Handmaiden has the same issue with her cleave talent being unused…presumably because she also doesnt have any weapon with sufficiently good cleave to make use of it.

I do like all her rows from 15 down though, all options have some value and one can just take whatever they like.

  • Black market supplies while not extraordinary isnt really terrible either, having some extra ammo can come in handy if you happen to shoot a lot despite being melee.
  • Axes? I do agree, they´re terrible.
  • Mining pick is strong on slayer from what i heard and considered a Niche build meaning it gets to stay as it is for the other two <.<

I seriously do not really like that line of thought but i understand where it´s coming from <.<

  • Saltspyre’s Flail.…well i dont use it and i never see anyone else do it either.
  • Flame Sword is hella powerful on battle wizard and thus considered a niche build there as well.
  • Handgun is mainly just there so Kruber can have a sniping weapons on the careers that doesnt have longbow.
  • Falchion…actually lots of weapons kinda feel lame even if they do work, like Keri&sienna
    1handed swords…might be worth posting about.
  • I also feel that Shade feels strangely powerful since WoM.
  • Axe and Falchion? Aside from this one zealot who basically ran ahead semi solo for most of a match to nab all the green circles except damage taken i have not seen anyone really stand out with them.
  • Handmaiden´s Bleed-on-dash talent feels strong if you use it well on legend.
  • Enemies stacking ontop eachother is indeed a pain in the arse.
  • Auto aim stuff not working is really a headache :expressionless:

Feels real bad when you aim down a faraway assassin only for the shots to miss entirely and hit some slaverats instead.

  • Tons of enemy spawning at the same time isnt really a huge problem on legend but i haven’t played cata.
  • Host getting tracked more? I haven’t noticed.
  • Beastmen being kinda smarter, faster and stronger at everything compared to previous enemies seems to be their specialty.

I am more scared by 5 Gors than i am by 5 Chaos warriors…seriously the Gors hit like 3 times faster while dealing 75% of the damage which is plenty enough to wreck anyone squishy in a second.


It’s not you, it was the most voted on THP talent in the community beta that needs a buff.

You’ll get far more use and kills out of the repeater handgun tho.


And about mace and sword, I will ad real anti armor damage almost to one hit. First light hit with mace to the head or in the charged attack. Something in which you can trust when you are in problems vs CW.

1 Like

I can understand that. M+S has a lot of mobility and CC anyway.

Once you see a Kruber use the 40% damage reduction Ult, get Blade barrier (25% DMG reduction) and Barkskin, and then tank a Boss + Horde, it’s pretty hard to find the other choices worthwhile. Dodge with 2H weapons with less mobility is still good though.

I agree with most of what you said, but on this point: Mining Pick works well on Slayer, the lights and push-attacks, and lack of mobility without Ult/stacking movement speed, is what makes it bad for Cata. As soon as you’re against a Horde with 1-3 Elites in, things get spooky.

Whether it’s intended as a Slayer only weapon now is unclear, but for IB and RV the build just takes over, and is less viable than pretty much anything else other than 1H Axe.

RV is the next closest to Viable with it. This is my build:

Mining Pick: Attack Speed/Crit (Swiftslaying)
Throwing Axes: Infantry/Monsters (RS)
Neck: Health/Stam (Healers Touch)
Charm: Attack Speed/Armour (Concoction)
Trinket: CDR/Movement Speed (Shrap)

Stagger Temp
Last Resort/Foe-Feller
Mainstay/Enhanced Power
No Dawdling! (10% movement speed)
Ranger’s Parting Gift

The movement speed, crit and attack speed are all what make this build work. Without the movement speed, you just end up getting hit all the time. You have to pray for a Swiftslaying proc. If any Elites are in the Horde, you can try push-attacking them, but usually end up kiting constantly because it’s not enough damage and your speed isn’t fast enough.

Concoction is also helpful for Ult > Bomb > Horde clear with Pick.

Now if I wanted to hit any ranged breakpoints with a different ranged weapon I would have a real problem.

Even with all of that, my damage is usually minimal. I can kill quite a few roaming Elites though.

1 Like

Lets hope they get around to buffing it a bit sometime soon…i mean sure too much temp health is bad from a balance perspective but having little to none is also kinda bad when looking to “win” as it is now.

Doesnt this thing have less effective range+greater ammo consumption+less accuracy when compared to the handgun when sniping with it?

I do love it just because i got a really fancy one+the special “fire all shots at will” thing it can do but if talking pure effectiveness at long range i figure handgun would be better.

The problem with the pickaxe that while it is a niche weapon (anti elite) it also cant be buffed because if it was then slayer would be truly OP with it.

Kinda similar to say Elf hagbane or swift bows for instance, if fatshark wanted to buff them for Handmaiden/shade they´d just end up making waystalker OP in turn.

Back to the Pickaxe…yeah it sucks if you want to use it on IB or RV but this reality is kinda difficult to deal with unless Fatshark somehow cooks up a way to separate all the careers balance numbers from eachother so that weapons can be tuned individually : (

1 Like

IMO: I don’t need falchion to do well against chaos warriors, I just need it to do better against infantry than A&F. At the least I’d like it’s horde clearing to be on par with rapier, so either more cleave or more damage, I think, would help it. Or elf levels of crit chance.

Flail I would like to be a better middle ground between mace and great hammer, it needs way more cleave and armor damage.

Thp on cleave (and to a lesser extent stagger) need to have their limitations removed. I think the max amount of thp gained should be as many enemies as you can hit in a swing. Willing to be convinced if that would be too forgiving, but the current one is simply too strict. Iirc current talent gives 0.3 health on a single target (just enough to stall health decay, fair), but can only get a max 5 health on swing. Bruh, that’s not rewarding people for controlling hordes at all.


He needs something in terms of melee weapons. RV only feels useful with 2H Mace and Dual Maces rn, and that’s just barely. Most of the other weapons don’t offer enough safety or killing power. It’s mainly because of his lack of melee passives, but it’s mostly because most of his weapons are super slow. This works for IB, because you can afford to get hit a lot, and Slayer can make anything work, but the Pick is one of the weapons he struggles most with, other than 1H Axe.

It really feels like he’s been backed into a corner in terms of weapon choices. Most of them feel extremely underwhelming too.


Doesnt most of the heroes have that deal going on? Everyone has a couple of options that are just flat out better than the rest while those other ones are either workable with a weakness or outright bad.

From what i hear and know about Cata then Kerillian cant use her Dual swords,1handed sword, Axe, Greatsword or even her dual daggers.

Which means that the viable options are just Glaive, Spear, Sword&Dagger…and well Daggers on Shade possibly, i havent actually played Cata.

But knowing their health and high spawn rate i´d figure this to be the case as infantry spawns are too dense and elites too common.


Nah, only her Axe and maybe 1H Sword, I haven’t tried that yet. HM and Shade can make the Axe work to some extent though. Daggers are fine on HM and Shade too. Haven’t tried them on WS. Spear is still insane, Shield and Spear is great, Dual Swords can work for Temp HP. All of her dual weapons are busted on Shade though.

The only ones that struggle are the ones I’ve mentioned the main post. Pretty much everything else is workable.

RV has always felt lacking in melee, even in Legend. The weapons are just too heavily based around IB and Slayer. Starting to think the 30% damage reduction after a headshot is the only Talent worth taking on that tier. Most other ranged careers have great weapons that can make up for the lack of melee-based stats/Talents, but RV can’t even compete.

Even if you can make a decent build, you’re still likely reliant on others to do most other jobs you’re not specified for, or for them to give you items. If they find a way to make him more efficiently supportive it will work. People can’t always trade, forget to, or just plain can’t be bothered. They even ignore the fact that you have a passive heal dupe too. He’s probably the least versatile career.

The 25% Power when out of ammo can make you a little better in melee, but even then he still feels weak. And having to be out of ammo as RV who passively causes spam ammo drops is a bit weird.


This is why i´d rate dual swords as unviable, if cata likes spawning elites&normal so much and a stormvermin has 86 health then killing a single one would take faaaar too long and just 2-3 would have you nearly helpless.

Dual daggers by design arent very good at dealing with truly numerous enemies, good for dealing with a few and can even handle non-hyperdense hordes well but does cata not spawn tons almost constantly?

A weapon like say Sword&dagger or Spear that handles both hordes and elites well is faaaar more preferable in such a case methinks.

And in essence that´s a problem other heroes suffer from when one is choosing weapons for them too, which is why diversity takes a nosedive.

You also go into the thing about some weird and wonkey talents not really being all that help or useful like the 25% power buff when out of ammo on RV, i do agree that it´s not really a good fit for him.

Others have similar problems though, like Kerillian having that lvl 30 talent that gives her 30% ammo back if she uses her ability when she has none left.

The reason i´d call that one bad is because if you take another lvl 30 option that gives you an extra arrow on the ability+ammo on headshots then you can actually gain more ammo on ability use without having to go empty for it.

Which of course does mean you can only use the “ammo on headshots” trait on bows but still, better that than poor ammo sustain or no ammo or little ability use.

Some wonkey balance exists here and there, but i really highly recommend you make a dedicated post about Bardin RV specifically while looking for similar cases among other careers to backup your arguments.

Fatshark does listen even if it takes time^^

1 Like

Yeah, they’re not her best.

The Hordes are it’s biggest issue, but there are ways of dealing with it:

As Shade, they’re broken with either the Bleed 20% damage Talent, or the Crit Damage Talent. You then run Spring-Heeled Assassin, and sprint about either spamming backstabs, or spamming headshots from the front. And obviously melting Bosses.

As HM, you can run the 10% Power on Line 2, 7% Power on Line 3 and the Crit Ultimate. This means you can run Crit Power on Daggers and Charm, makings you really good against Elites and Bosses (Ult through Bosses on Cooldown for Crit Stacks). Hag with headshot replenishment seems best for this. You’re not so good at frontlining, but I found I could just support the actual frontline with pushes and popping off Elites.

Going to try WS now, I have a feeling being able to insta-gib most smaller enemies is going to make Bloodshot procs easy to get. Also Boss damage is always good with Daggers. Guessing Hag/Swift is going to be best because of the lack of AoE clear.

Yeah, this also seems like a no-brainer. Her last 2 rows don’t seem to have much choice.

I might. In my WoM feedback survey I wrote a lot about him and how much he was struggling, but I guess they didn’t have time to look at any changes.

UPDATE: added thread on Ranger Veteran:

This topic was automatically closed 7 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.