Career talent choices

Many talents are not choices and are just way better than others on the same row, which make them not even choices. This is not about deciding if those talents need buffing or the one stronger one needs nerfing, i’d just like to see actual choices, most of the time i am choosing between one or 2. I know some i will mention can have super super little niches where i can be used but if you wanna play serious on cata it gets overshadowed by other talents.

If you dont know what each talent does, this site will help you: https://www.ranaldsgift.com/

talents

Mercenary

  • Ready for action: i dont think this one needs explaining

Footknight

  • It’s hero time: Super situational

Huntsman

  • Master huntsman: other than playing twitch mode, this talent can be good or bad, if you get a boss at the end of the level it’s kind of a wasted talent. so this one is debatable.

Ironbreaker

  • Crushing counter blow: Not super familiar with ib but blood of grimnir sounds like a more consistent dmg increase. if someone takes crushing counter blow and has a good explanation why its better i would love to know it. (on cata pls)

Slayer

  • Hack and slash: Lazy talent, i just use this when i am running 1h + 2h. make this more intresting, maybe something like riposte concept but better.

Ranger veteran

  • Last resort: Power increase when out of ammo is a bad talent, i only take this if i want to meme around.

  • Share and Share alike: This talent is good if you don’t trust your teammates and they take your ammo away from you, otherwise 30% ammo is way better.

  • Foe-feller: lazy talent

Waystalker

  • Drakira’s alacrity: Maybe usefull for swiftbow memes, bleed and blood shot still the better talents
    edit: @Kitten proved me wrong: explanation in comments

  • Ricochet: Usefull for firing around corners without peeking them and hoping you hit something, if you have some aim this is useless to take.

  • Both ult talents are good talents, sadly enough kurnous reward is just too strong

Handmaiden

  • Focused spirit: Needs ff removed or lower cd

Shade

  • Exploit weakness:
    Edit @Sleezy gave a good reason to use this and i agree.

  • Level 20 row: Bloodfletcher overshadows this entire row for me

  • Cloak of mist: pretty meme talent, good for invis cheesing

Witch hunter captain

  • riposte: can be fun, deathknell and flense are just more consistent dps increases

  • templars knowledge: maybe there are certain breakpoints that can be reached with this, if there are then it would be usefull, i dont know of any currently.

  • I shall judge you all: Crits ult is broken so rip

Bounty hunter

  • Necessary means: again usefull if going melee bh which you shouldnt or meme around with last shot which i think works with this, works on rv so.

  • Just reward: If you can headshot i dont see this being usefull

Zealot

  • Unbending purpose: attack speed and crits just outclass this.

Battle wizard

  • volcans quickening: Why take this i dont understand.

Pyromancer

  • martial study; maybe for melee only builds, even then i wouldnt really use it.

Unchained

  • Numb to pain: uc still gets the full damage in her overcharge so untill its fixed i wouldnt use this.

  • Enfeebling flames: if you use it for yourself its a bad talent, good for teammates tho.

  • Flame wave: dps or temp hp or radius for the same cd, i know what i would choose.


Stagger ults

One of the ways they could improve stagger ult talents is making it give buffs to your team or debuffs to enemies. Examples of this are ‘apply witch hunt to enemies on ult’ i like these kind of talents, right now i dont use them because they get outclassed by crits or even cd a bit. mercenary ready for action talent could be reworked into something like giving a buff or debuff aswell, dmg reduction should be tweaked down a bit to make it actually a choice but i like the concept of 'apply witch hunt to enemies, give temp hp etc.

If you have any other talents which are simple outclassed, pls let me know. If i totally missed a certain build which makes use of the talents i mentioned and can compete with the other talents on cataclysm also comment below.

1 Like

No way! This and Bloodshot are they only worthwhile choices, Bloodshot to bypass Breakpoints on Elites and Drakira’s Alacrity for killing every Elite on the map with headshot spam. It also makes your Boss damage with Longbow insanely good.

The bottom two rows of WS are just locked in though. No real reason to play anything else.

Would add the CDR Talent for HM being not worth picking, too. Her Ult is too situational to make use of it, unless you’re doing speed runs or cheese.

Huntsman and BH switching from on kill THP to multiple hit THP would also be a really good change.

This talent literally makes the base Mercenary shout WORSE (some will argue it’s better or that it’s at least a sidegrade). Not to mention that you’re also sacrificing 40% dmg reduction for 10 seconds for the entire team every time you use your shout, which is like every 30 seconds. It’s honestly an overpowered talent and it’s funny having a complete meme talent right next to it as well.

1 Like

I just tested this, the difference is that bleed talent with longbow is more dps/per ammo with drakira’s you are less ammo efficient, do less damage, but you can do the damage quicker so i can see now why you could use it on bosses. if killing elites who are running at you like a group of sv you can hs them quicker, or you could just stand a bit more back and headshot them that way. But i can see a use so thanks for replying.

I didnt include CDR talent for hm because you can block cancel your ult for invis and stay with your teammates or if you use bleed or crit, means you can get your ult back quicker.

I also didnt add temp hp talents or stagger talents because i feel every one should be available to every career, but i didnt want to focus this post around that.

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If the WS is supported well enough at the correct time, it’s very easy to use this Talent to wipe out nearly every roaming Elite in new areas. I’d highly recommend testing this with a coordinated group. You’re only limited by aim and aim speed, which is learnable in this game.

Even so, I’d much rather a talent which is less situational. Hopefully they do something to make Bladedancer more useful, which would make this Talent a lot more appealing.

I have not really an issue killing every elite thats roaming before they get to me without the attack speed talent, if you are supported enough you shouldnt need it anyways. and it isnt so much useless as i thought about it in the first place, as you made me look at it a second time and test it.

I mean this isnt really so situational, you’re gonna be with your team most of the time if block cancelling or just dashing trough little enemy packs and running back to your team. So i can see this being chosen .

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I think this talent is good if you’re running the hag build. Increases damage of hagbane. Also, DD crits barely do more damage w/ crit power vs. 20% total damage. DD applies bleed as well.

I agree with most of the other talents you put in here. Mainly, all of the 5% to x property talents need to go. That’s a cop out.

2 Likes

I feel like getting rid of bloodfletcher earlier would have solved a lot of the issues with shade, myself. Absolutely no idea why she needs such strong ammo regen, particularly with access to hagbane.

5 Likes

This is indeed more dps for hagbaning. From testing (on rat ogre) i found that with dual daggers Crits and Headshot talent were a bit more dps, not alot more tho. The upside is that you dont have to keep your headshots up or you cant get super unlucky on crits, This was ofcourse on DD.

So i’ll edit my original post, thanks. I forgot you could hagbane alot with shade for some reason. I would imagine the dps being more with other weapons and talents on shade, maybe sword&dagger apply bleeds fast enough to keep up the dmg increase.

If there are any other ones you question, i’d be happy to hear your reasoning i might of just missed something.

Well hagbane also gives Shade very good horde clear and crowd control, which compliments DD’s extremely well. It’s kind of the most meta loadout in the game.

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Nah, I agree with everything on the list other than that. You could also add Centred for BW. It’s worse at every point compared to unusually calm.

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I don’t really think that’s as true as it used to be. The CDR nerf to hagbane took away a lot of the synergy with shade. Also, Crit Power increases ult damage significantly for dumping on monsters. I’ve been seeing shades run longbow a lot more since hag nerfs. But it is definitely still a solid build.

2 Likes

Ironbreaker

  • Crushing Counter-Blow: This is an interesting talent on paper but it’s mostly for shield weapons, which are underwhelming in this game. Each block fills charges up to 5 and is consumed when you attack. The problem with this is that blocking in this game is often your last option. Attack > Push/Dodge > Block . You need to be blocking all the time(sub-optimal) for this to be better than Blood of Grimnir: 15% for a party that should be sticking together (optimal). If they wanted to keep this talent and make it attractive then make it worth it. Raise the numbers. Make it 50% or 100% at 5 charges. It might even make the shield weapons entertaining.

Slayer

  • Hack and slash: This is a boring talent. However because of Swift-Slaying and Crit-stacking, it is a fairly strong one. It gives you a more consistent uptime on SS for the slower 2h weapons.

Ranger Veteran

  • Last Resort: I hate this talent. But I’ve heard there is a niche for it with the Throwing Axes DLC. But it’s bad in a sense that it’s a talent that really only applies for 1 weapon. Running out of ammo is bad, you never want to find yourself in that situation. A talent that wants you to push yourself in that direction is counter-intuitive. The Throwing Axes circumvent this downside because of how they work.

  • Share and Share alike: Agree. This sucks. This is basically a talent that fixes shitty, greedy teamates. If were going to do this, I’d rather have a talent that lets me steal items from my ally’s inventory.

  • Foe-Feller: Agreed. 5% attack speed is 1 property. A talent should be worth more than just 1 property. It’s boring and it sucks.

3 Likes

Not only that, but I think that it’s just bad game design as well. Both BH and RV have this, and they are RANGED focused careers. The entire point of them is that they can make great use of ranged weapons due to the fact that they have easy access to ammo or buffs to ranged power. So why on earth would you want to sacrifice your strength as a career for a 25% power increase for melee, when you can just take a melee career and have more power, more health, more survivability and do better without having to dump all of your ammo? That and 25% increase is really not very significant when you have no other buffs to your melee. Not to mention that not having ammo leaves you vulnerable to specials and gimps your horde clearing capability if using something like grudgeraker, which would be your main weapon for doing damage.

2 Likes

Not only that, but I think that it’s just bad game design as well. Both BH and RV have this, and they are RANGED focused careers. The entire point of them is that they can make great use of ranged weapons due to the fact that they have easy access to ammo or buffs to ranged power. So why on earth would you want to sacrifice your strength as a career for a 25% power increase for melee, when you can just take a melee career and have more power, more health, more survivability and do better without having to dump all of your ammo? That and 25% increase is really not very significant when you have no other buffs to your melee. Not to mention that not having ammo leaves you vulnerable to specials and gimps your horde clearing capability if using something like grudgeraker, which would be your main weapon for doing damage.

I think their intent with Last Resort/Necessary Means is that you’re buying an insurance policy. You shouldn’t be aiming to lose all your ammo but in the event that you do, here’s a power bonus. It just isn’t worth it though, the alternatives are better and running out of ammo should only be happening in extreme circumstances. The talent feels like a mechanic for beginners who don’t yet have a sense for managing their ammo so it’s useless for most of the player base. It would’ve made a lot more sense as a free, toned down career perk.

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It makes it less ridiculous how often you get your ult back up, but hagbane on its own is still an insane weapon. Being able to run DD without having to worry about the weakness of DD is pretty huge on its own right, even without considering how stupid good hagbane is on its own.

Maybe it’s different in premades or something, but for pubs or TS I can’t really see why you’d want to run longbow over hagbane myself, at least with DD.

Special Control. I don’t really think there are enough hordes on Cata or dense enough hordes to need a hagbane. DD has insane horde clear speed and elite killing. DD is an unsafe weapon though, so hagbane is the clear winner if you need the CC to break up hordes. Even on handmaiden w/ DD/lbow it is easy to get every green circle bc DD is just that strong. And I’m certainly no elf main.

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I guess? I don’t think I’ve ever really struggled with special control with hagbane though myself, they all die pretty quickly. HM being able to shove so much definitely helps get rid of some of the weakness of DD, but on shade at least I still can’t see why I’d personally want to run longbow over hagbane in most pub situations. Being able to put out so much damage so safely and then just pick off whatever didn’t get nuked is pretty insane value to me.

Longbow just feels kind of meh in comparison, at least from my experience. It’s not like DD shade is lacking in single target damage or anything, so unless I’m missing something it’s just giving up a whole heap of clear speed and CC for a slightly quicker special clear rate.

Longbow is better in everything except cc thats basically it.
If you think you can handle hordes fine with dd longbow, using longbow is the better choice, If you have trouble or your comp needs cc, i would say use hagbane.

Yeah but it’s just kind of adding to strengths shade already has, right? I don’t often play DD shade and go “damn I wish I had more AP damage” lol. Being able to nuke hordes and not stress about density at all is definitely one of the weaknesses of DD though, which hagbane completely makes up for.

It doesn’t really struggle with specials either.

You can do fine with either because like sleezy said DD is insane on its own, but I guess I just can’t see the synergy between it and longbow.