Witch Hunter Captain Rebalance

Warhammer: Vermintide 2 Gameplay Feedback
101

I agree with james here, this is why i suggested pushing or blocking without timed blocks. Yes its super strong, but something better balanced such as adding a cooldown on it or something could make it work, like james suggested. pushing would be the best choice i think, it would synergise greatly with 40% stam talent aswell. The only issue is balancing and how it would play out in a game scenario, but i think it would already be more chosen purely due to how it plays and how it procs.

Or make riposte entirly different and make it like: taking aggro from an enemy boosts victor’s critical chance by “x %” for “x seconds”. That way you can take aggro from mobs by pushing or other ways and have a increased chance to insta slay mansized enemies. Yes it wouldn’t be consistent crit, but having a boosted chance for a couple seconds could be stronger, but its just an idea.

102

ideally I’d like the riposte to actually function as a riposte but…it does carry some problems in terms of slowing down gameplay and timed blocks being imperfect off-host

103

Agreed that the timed blocks do sadly not work well in practice, reactive gameplay is always worse than proactive gameplay.

I fear that a guarenteed crit after a push, even on a cooldown, would lead to other issues such as promoting the “Blockspyre/Glockspyre” playstyle.
I like the idea of it just increasing your crit chance by X% for your next attack after a push or a regular non-timed block.
Stam is limited, thus preventing spam.

104

I’d argue that this is more of an issue of enemies having undertuned stagger resistance on normal Cata plus teams having too much cleave in general, resulting in blocking being something one only really has to ever do against a patrol, a boss or when reviving.

Good proof of this is against the Minotaur and Chaos Spawn, where Riposte shines and doesn’t slow down gameplay at all (in fact it encourages being aggressive in a timed manner against bosses).

On Deathwish Cata 3, while still inferior to Flense because of it’s aggregate dps, it performs perfectly well.

I know that pushing resets the parry window, but I haven’t gotten the chance to try it with ping above 150 (seems fine below). Perhaps this would fix that issue?

105

it does but the problem I find is if I push, things stagger so I just start swinging :stuck_out_tongue:

I wouldn’t want balance choices to account for my ping values anyway tbqh unless we’re talking blocking being changed to register from the client-side

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106

Probably depends on the weapon then. Works well on the Rapier because of it’s low stagger, fast and numerous pushes, but on a weapon like the Flail or Greatsword pushing becomes more risky and is more likely to stagger an elite.

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107

Also have to keep in mind other players are also pushing, possibly taking your Riposte opportunities.

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108

If we really wanted to move away from Riposte’s roots, there’s also this idea:
“Successfully dodging an attack causes your next headshot melee attack on any enemy that is attacking to be a guaranteed critical hit.”

This would be very powerful. No bodyshot crits but now the window of attack is much larger and integrates a whole lot more naturally with a high mobility career. Personally I’d love to have both this and the current version of Riposte but I don’t want the talent description to a page long, though I suppose it would only add this much text:

“Parrying causes your next melee attack to be a critical hit. Successfully dodging an attack also causes your next headshot melee attack on any enemy that is attacking to be a critical hit.”

Unfortunately that is true. It’s why FK alone can render the talent worthless. I still think this is because of the low stagger resistance of enemies on normal Cata though.

109

To me that sounds absurdly powerful and most likely would need at least pretty decent internal cooldown.

2 Likes
110

Regarding Riposte, just another idea I was mulling over. The version I’m suggesting here is assuming the current version of WHC, just to be clear. What if on top of its current effect it also made normally unlockable attacks blockable (with a timed parry, not an ordinary block) and around a 2 second burst of attack speed following a successful parry.

The idea here is that it would become a good anti boss/CW talent, as the attack speed and being able to parry boss slams would open up damage opportunities where you would have them otherwise, and let you do things like fit fully charged rapier heavies in between attacks where you normally wouldn’t have enough time for them.

The activation condition remains kinda niche, but at least it would be strong at its niche, mainly being boss damage when you have aggro, but also allowing more damage opportunities against groups of CWs.

@Velsix As the resident Riposte expert, d’you think that kind of change would do anything for it? I admit though that the idea of parrying a boss slam with any of Saltz’ weapons is a bit silly.

1 Like
111

I agree. I’ve come to realise that not all player tools should be proactive. If players are never forced to react to enemeis, then enemies become simple stat checks like can I stagger this, do I oneshot this etc. Players should be forced to block sometimes, as otherwise it simply removes a gameplay dimension and mechanic, and having a talent (like Riposte) that works with that fact isn’t bad. It’s simply overshadowed by the extreme power of Flense, and Deathknell because of the low stagger resistance of enemies. Enemies need to be able to do things. The best medicine is preventative, but not all medicine is nor should be.

It’s a balancing act - players should be forced to be on their backfoot sometimes and have to react to enemies, but should also be required to be proactive to make their way through a level. This can come into play when you have a high dps & low survivability career (proactive) and a support/tank/clutch career (reactive) which ideally would need to play off each other’s strengths and not be able to solo the level. Currently though we can just have proactive dps and be fine, which I think is a problem.

Riposte only slows down gameplay because in the current patch we’re able to just ignore the individual characteristics of enemies through super high mobility, dps and stagger.

My personal issues with Riposte currently are:

  • Low stagger resistance results in allies that aren’t even stagger specialised rendering the talent irrelevant - this can be fixed with gameplay adjustments (this would also help out other talents that rely on blocking)

  • It’s not great vs Chaos Warriors. If it’s changed so that Riposte heavy attacks one shot them (currently requires tag+20% crit power+ 20 vs Chaos for the Rapier’s full charge heavy to one shot headshot) then it improves a lot.

  • The recoil from blocking powerful strikes from enemies is annoying. Immunity to recoil could either be added to Riposte or to the Parry trait.

What do you think of this:
“Blocking just as an enemy attack is about to hit no longer costs stamina nor causes recoil and causes your next melee attack within 2 seconds to be a 15% faster guaranteed critical hit. If this attack is a charged attack it will instantly slay a Chaos Warrior or Wargor on headshot.”
Personally I think it’s inelegantly overloaded with effects, but in backfoot situations it would be amazing for clutching.

Also, random idea, @anon75893681 how would we feel about Killing Shot only working on tagged enemies? Would help I Shall Judge You All a lot while still making the normal playstyles possible, just more difficult.

This would expand its use for boss dps from the Spawn, Mino and Troll to include the Rat Ogre while also making it more consistent against the Spawn. It’s a shame that it’s currently useless against a Rat Ogre after their initial running attack combo, so I’d be for this change even if it looked goofy.

Perhaps it could only be achieved by using both Riposte and Parry on your weapon, as a sort of added synergy (I would be fine with it not requiring Parry either).

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112

First thought that comes to mind that its even more loaded with effects but really the activation conditions are also pretty severe so I don’t see it being as abusable as something like “oh hey I’m just dodging and getting effects”
But ye generally I like something like this a lot more in comparison. Honestly the 2 second window could be even longer in this kind of situation.

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113

So would it be fair to say that we would all prefer Riposte being improved as a talent instead of having it replace a passive or being combined with one of the other talents?

Edit: What should Chaos Warriors and Wargors be referred to as collectively? Putting Chaos Warriors and Wargors in the talent text makes it bulky. I was thinking of non-mansized enemies but that includes bosses as well, which would make it misleading.

114

I haven’t been keeping up, why do those two need to be referred to collectively? The only thing they have in common is having the super armor class on body. Aren’t Wargors considered a mansized enemy and vulnerable to Kill-Shot?

2 Likes
115

Wargors are not considered mansized oddly enough. They have low health but Rapier crit lights do not instantly kill them on headshot (tested on Cata). On Legend the Rapier’s lights just do enough damage to kill them anyway with crit headshot.

I believe the super armour aspect is tied to it, as afaik on metal weaves SV get superarmour like Chaos Warriors and are likewise immune to Killing Shot.

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116

I’ve streamlined the main post, making it significantly less verbose. The passives are no longer changed. Riposte is kept where it is and receives a buff. Flense is nerfed. Other changes are listed in the main post and in its TL;DR section.

I’ve made several polls for various changes and idea.

Power of Sigmar
This unlisted passive increases headshot bonus damage by 25%, Should it be increased to 50% (from 25%) provided it is given a reduction in bodyshot damage of 12.5%, or would this be unfriendly to new players? WHC is Saltz’ first career.

  • Increase to 50% headshot damage
  • Increase to 50% headshot damage and add an effect of a 12.5% bodyshot damage decrease
  • It should not be changed

0 voters

Sigmar’s Charm
This unlisted passive increases crit chance by 5%. Should Sigmar’s Charm be removed or stay?

  • Sigmar’s Charm should be removed
  • Sigmar’s Charm should stay

0 voters

Deathknell
Should Deathknell reduce bodyshot damage by 12.5%?

  • It should
  • Yes, but only for melee attacks and not range
  • No

0 voters

Riposte
What should happen to Riposte?

  • Riposte should stay as a talent
  • Riposte should stay as a talent and be buffed
  • Riposte should become a passive
  • Merge Riposte with Deathknell and add a new talent

0 voters

Riposte and Power of Sigmar
Should both the headshot passive be buffed and Riposte made a passive?

  • Both changes should happen
  • Neither should occur
  • Only Riposte should be changed
  • Only Power of Sigmar should be changed

0 voters

Edit: Someone told me that the option “Neither should occur” was confusing. Sorry. It means Riposte should not be made a passive and Power of Sigmar should not be changed. “Only Riposte should be changed” refers to Riposte becoming a passive, and does not exclude Riposte being buffed.

##New Poll Options##

Killing Shot and Tagging
Should Killing Shot be changed to only work on tagged enemies?

  • Killing Shot should not be altered
  • Killing Shot should only work on tagged enemies

0 voters

Killing Shot and Riposte
Should Killing Shot and Riposte be merged into a passive so that Killing Shot is only active for Riposte crits and during Animosity?

  • Killing Shot and Riposte should be merged as a passive. Killing Shot should be active during Animosity and for Riposte crits.
  • Killing Shot and Riposte should not be merged.

0 voters

Part II of polls

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117

Another poll.

Killing Shot, Power of Sigmar and Deathknell Range
Should Killing Shot, Power of Sigmar and Deathknell affect range shots that have passed their effective range/first damage drop off point? They currently do.

  • No, they should not affect them
  • Yes, they should affect them as they do on the current patch

0 voters

118

I find these polls a bit pointless, because people mostly just vote for the option that means “Don’t change anything”

119

I can’t speak for all of the polls on this site, but in the case of these polls I think it’s more of a sign that some of my ideas are simply poorly thought out, which is useful (for me at least) to know.

120

I don’t entirely agree.

Your ideas mostly just aim to “fix” something that a big portion of people considers not broken.
So even if you suggest something awesome and truly unique, people will just say “Stop touching my Victor! I like him how he is NOW!”