Which issue ? (there are several listed, some being true, and some not really being issues)
Every issue he listed is an issue for him. Some might not be issues for you.
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I donât see how it actually precise the issue DezZzo wants to be solved. (âthereâs still time to fix the mistakesâ)
Iâm not dezZzo but i think he is talking about the Op issues.
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If fixing mistakes is going back to 1.6, I would rather not then.
Nobody is saying to go back to 1.6 ? There are alot of issues with the game, doesnât mean we should rollback.
This is the âobvious solutionâ pointed by thoses critiscisms :
â Reduce Beastmens in maps. Theyâre âworking on itâ per their last communications around the issue.
â Go back to 1.6 combat.
â Change difficulty closer to onslaught.
â Go back to 1.6. This is probably the point where I most disagree, as I think it did a lot of good to a lot of careers. Itâs far from perfect, but itâs also far better than before the redesign.
â Go back to 1.6 or improve the weaves, how ? We donât really know.
â Go back to 1.6. Despite all patches following WoM focusing on improving the combat so itâs less sluggish and clunky and still very close to its former glory.
Quitting the game wonât improve it. And ranting about past issues (sluggish fight), or some that still needs time to adress (less beastmens, and balancing more the new balance) wonât really help either.
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Lol ok
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In fairness to Froh, Iâve actually been pretty vocal about going back to 1.6. Maybe not in this thread specifically, but I do say that a lot on the forums. 2.0 really killed the game for me, and only partly because it was an utterly broken pre-beta-quality buggy mess for the first month or so. The changes theyâve made to combat, even if they were to implement them properly without breaking tons of things, make the gameplay much less fun in my mind. Itâs really disappointing because pre-2.0, V2 was the most fun Iâd had playing video games in years, but post 2.0, I do not enjoy the game at all.
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And even if I still strongly disagree with preWoM being better, hereâs something to help you âget the fun backâ : https://www.reddit.com/r/Vermintide/comments/cnhbdg/guide_how_to_play_version_17/
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The problem here is that there are not many players online for this method simply because the majority of players either have accepted 2.0 changes as equal in or are even in favour of 2.0 (like you and me). The die hard fraction in favour of 1.6 isnât that large to begin with. The fraction which is ready to sacrifice other game updates and functions to be able to keep playing 1.6 is evanescent.
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Itâs a nostalgia issue. âThe game was better beforeâ is working on remembering the fun we had, due to many factors (âI remember when legend was a struggleâ doesnât factually mean that legend was harder for example, it meant that with less experience that I had, I âenjoyedâ being killed brutally). Installing 1.7 again, you can actually try the nostalgia experience, and see if you feel the same way that before.
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Maybe for some people. But some of us genuinely dislike the new direction of the game.
Things I like about 2.0:
- more enemy variety (though sometimes it feels like youâre only encountering beastmen now⌠and I would much prefer if beastmen were placed selectively in old maps instead of just being added to a random pool and showing up everywhere â this has made the maps feel more âsameyâ)
- scripted end-of-map events are actually harder on higher difficulties now
- the âwindsâ gameplay modifiers are mostly interesting
- new maps are good, even if itâs just one (two if we count the Drachenfels one, though thatâs not really part of the 1.6-to-2.0 change)
- new weapons. This one is really more âneutralâ than âgoodâ to me, because I donât particularly care for most of the new weapons, but the idea of more weapons is good.
Things I dislike about 2.0:
- the changes to how enemies track through dodge wreck the game on high ping. If youâre hosting or have good ping, if you had decent dodge timing already then the changes are barely even noticeable. But if your ping is even moderately high, it leads to eating a LOT of hits that feel unfair. (For reference, Iâm in a major US city, and my experience has been that ping of 100-150 is a pretty decent connection for a lot of people.)
- the whole stagger-for-bonus-damage system is garbage. Stagger was already strong, because it kept you safe. Adding bonus damage to it made the hard part of combat (when youâre solo / separated from your group) more tedious because everything effectively has more HP, and it made the easy part of combat (when youâre âproperlyâ grouped up) even easier. By punishing ânon-properâ play more, it encourages people to group up and play âcorrectâ, but they made that so easy that itâs just boring. I hated the âKruber + Bardin 2h hammer to hold a choke pointâ meta when the game was new, and it just seems like every game has turned into that style of play now.
- skill re-works for careers are mostly uninteresting to me. I suppose this is more of a âneutralâ than a ânegativeâ, but I really am not excited about any of the ânewâ versions of the careers. This just feels like change for the sake of change. I didnât use âmetaâ builds for the careers pre-2.0, so any argument that variety builds are possible now just seems ignorant to me.
- Weaves are terrible. Winds are good, but weaves are a bad idea, implemented even worse. Fix the base game crafting instead of making a new system and getting that one wrong too. Incorporate winds into the base gameplay in some way so youâre not splitting the player base even more instead of making a completely separate game mode with new currency, new progression, etc.
I could go on, but really should be getting back to work as itâs time for lunch break to be over.
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maybe he has alot afk times XD?
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Interesting read, and I agree with a lot of points, dodge was an issue that needed some fix, but a system to take ping into account could help.
After the hp change, you actually have 2 talents to mostly ignore it : Either the 7% + 50 power bring you on par damage wise than previously (in legend as catalysm didnât exist), or you can take âfirst hit staggerâ so you can play light weapon kinda âas isâ. It have very little impact on you.
Except for cataclysm, which is another matter and probably more linked to difficulties numbers that didnât really changed, rather that âthe stagger for damageâ itself.
Design wise, it really opened more design space for some builds for tanks characters, which were kinda garbage tiers before (in a way that defense oriented tanks did slow team down rather than really helping). So I know you donât really like that choke point stuff, but itâs another variety build.
And even if youâre kinda neutral about talent 2.0, it really opened more viable builds, and weapon diversity that ever existed during the whole history of v2. So if I still donât have my scrounger / right click for ammo shotgun build anymore, I still did find very fun builds like âduplicateâ ranger veteran, that is actually playable in cataclysm, even if not its strongest.
Of course, there are somme issues, as they didnât really patch the unavoidable mistakes, like Unchained not really having clear focuses, but it did make a lot of interesting paths, if we consider all careers.
Now weaves will clearly need some other batches of improvement before becoming âthe end game that we needâ, and that, I agree on. But we can see that s2 is clearly far better than s1 when it comes to âbalancing difficultyâ.
Now, theyâll have to actually find a solution to make it worthwhile for ânormal gameâ as well. And it will be rather hard if they donât want to provide actual great rewards that thoses without the dlc wonât be able to get.
So, somewhere, a decision will have to be taken, on either allowing some horizontal power progression with cataclysm / weaves (aka more options than the non dlc owner like it already exist with weapons but could go further with new unique traits and / or talents choices) or giving every mode to every one and compensate players who bought winds of magic with a bunch of free stuff that others will have to pay. And thereâs probably not a single solution that will please everyone on that matter.
If they do ânothingâ on this part, Weaves will probably stay âthe mode which could have been end game, but is notâ.
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I really disagree with your stagger comments. There were very few weapons in 1.6 that really slowed the team down. Some of the 2h weapons were suboptimal, but not to an extreme extent. Basically the only weapons that were really bad in 1.6 were the shield + weapon combos, and all those needed was a slight improvement to mobility + the ability to block unblockable attacks to become viable & interesting options. Targeted tweaks like that to individual weapons are good. Making global changes to the entire combat system was a terrible idea. It completely discarded multiple years of combat tuning.
The more I think about it, Iâm really not neutral about talents 2.0. I was trying to be fair yesterday in my critiques but I donât think there are any classes where I prefer 2.0 talents to 1.6. The only one that might be an exception is Handmaiden, because Wraith Walk is pretty fun to mess around with, but even that is only fun in a broken and stupid way, like using a no-clip console command. I donât like the various talents that proc on special/elite kills, because that forces players into specific roles. There shouldnât be a reason for my teammates to be upset with me because I sniped an assassin that they needed to kill. In general, I feel like the talents might make the classes a bit more diverse from each other than they used to be, but they funnel each class into a specific role a lot more than 1.6 did. There were a small number of talents that were really bad; they should have just changed those few talents instead of making such wholesale changes to entire classes.
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I dont even remember how 1.6 was lol
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Tssss
It was like this :
http://verminbuilds.com/
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Thanks but i mean the weapons and how it felt to play it. got so used to WoMtide :/.
It was kind of similar, but you could spam the dodge button and never die.
That, the talents and the beastmen are the main differences, really.
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