If wished for we can talk about this in PM or a separate thread. But I would like to avoid detail discussion here and derail from Revy’s actual point of discussion for the overall game direction.
But for most detail points, intensive discussion have been lead in the past and can still be read. So, we could also skip and agree to disagree on this point.
It’s not derailment if it’s related to the original topic.
Regardless, it’s an issue that needs to be said and heard, but yes, let’s agree to disagree because we’re clearly on our each opposite spectrum regarding this specific issue.
Because it’s risk vs reward. You have a very huge advantage, killing the threat before it goes into “risky range” where it actually does damage (or disable someone). The downside is the “squishyness”, or nearly : health attrition being the drawback.
If you were to earn health (and therefore not having a drawback), why would you play melee characters ? This is why we had ranged meta back in the days were ranged could actually have no drawbacks.
Wanted to make a reply, but @Adelion said it all and more, way better than I could have. So. What he said.
Ok but how many hours in vermintide 2 without vermintide 1 hours?
The points brought up are both reasonable and relatable by the vast majority of players with far less play time and there is nothing presented that we would be able challenge.
But do take note that the game has improved since the release of WoM.
Also, you are saying that “virtually no one I know continues to play”. If this refers to irl friends then there is little advice to give. However, if you are talking about people you’ve met online then the are still plenty of people left to meet and play with.
Sure you can. Dodge sure was nerfed and combat changed, but you can still play pretty recklessly. More so as host though.
You can’t. Not when enemies are spawning wherever they wish, sometimes even in the middle of their attack animation. But that’s a whole other swamp.
The above issue aside, adding some enemy collision helped the issue to some degree, but there’s still the issue of enemy bloat and dodging not giving enough distance.
In memoriam of Wigglemancer !
The problem is not dodge, it’s tracking that needs to go.
The reward system really needs tweaking. The skill curve, match style and item reward system, make it feel like a farming game, but it doesn’t have any long-term payoff.
I would say it’s a mix of both, dodge-windows feel kinda weird sometimes, esp. if you play as client. The tracking is mostly frustrating for beastmen imho, damn those 180° spear-charged-attacks 
or the 90° archers (well those are kinda funny because it just looks stuid af 
) or the sliding Chaoswarriors (Im not even sure if thats related to tracking or just bad coding). Right now it feels good as host but as client it can be a pain in the a** even with good ms.
5000 hours of game time? Are you sure you didn’t enter an extra 0? I don’t quite believe what you say! !! Please show everyone your steam ID and let us verify your game time.
I honestly thought WoM was Welcome change, there’s definitely a rocky balance time with new mechanics and enemies but overall I feel that the system is improved from where it was.
I hear a lot of complaints about weaves but I even enjoy those, they are perfect but I think they are definitely a nice way to diversify the play a little. I personally think that the weapon system is pretty cool, actually makes leveling up a bit more fun and less reliant on RNG. I also think they should consider something like this for the standard game though considering we can already basically custom make weapons. Maybe require a red dust to make a maxed out weave weapon available in standard?
Overall though I think the game is in a good place and I can accept the flaws (beastmen Spears with insane reach, beastmen finishing attacks after they die) because FS is still actively working hard on the game.
As a player with every career at at least level 35+100, I can wholeheartedly disagree with this entire post. Ranged temp health trivialized the game for the first 6+ months of release before it was finally changed. You would never quickplay into legend and not see a WS, Pyro, and BH, and it was unbelievably boring. Then the ranged meta was replaced with the dodge dance meta because FS massively buffed dodge timings in the same patch they removed ranged temp health. From that point on you would never load into a game that wasn’t HM/Shade, Slayer, Merc, and Zealot. This was arguably even more boring and less challenging than the ranged meta.
Even despite all of those nerfs, waystalker is still arguably the strongest career in the game. Elf in general has the best selection of melee weapons. Combine that with still near infinite ammo on any ranged weapon, and there isnt anything that waystalker struggles at dealing with. Dodge is still very powerful, and unless you are playing on 150+ ping, if you are consistently getting hit through dodge it is a timing issue on your end, not the game.
I already silently conceded to @Froh by “liking” their counterargument. I see the issue now.
The issue is that unless you have a perfect connection, you’ll still get hit by tracking enemies or badly timed dodges due to ping.
I think the best quick way to fix it is to add a slight invincibility frame to dodging. Not too much, only the beginning of the dodge.
I don’t play Shade, but it’s AFAIK the squishiest class in the game- I think Shade at least should get a talent that adds an increment to that invincibility frame, if it gets added.
The dodge tracking delay on client was bad in WoM beta, when they reduced it so much. I think right now is fine as it’s more stagger focused anyway and you can still dodge attacks without getting tracked. I usually play on around 110-80 ping and i never have an issue with it, maybe on higher pings it could be. Only issue i have is enemies running attacking like immediatly when you are not even moving backwards or dodging backwards.
Issues with ping start creeping in around 130 ping, and really become noticable over 150. Whenever that occurs I just switch to a more block/push oriented playstyle and the issue is mostly mitigated. Launch of the game was significantly more punishing when enemies would track through dodges, the dodge window was quite short, and stagger was significantly less reliable/achievable. Higher pings back then was basically a death sentence. Another reason the ranged meta was so popular.
So reality finally caught up to you huh? Well I can’t say I’m surprised. I quit right at the launch of Winds of Magic. In hindsight it seems it was a good decision since the expansion is pretty horrible.
All that remains to be said is:
While majority of people in this thread be like “omg 5000 hours you have problems” the issue is still there. Vermintide 2 at it’s core still a game you can enjoy and there’s still time to fix the mistakes.