Why Preserving a High Standard for Max Difficulty is Important

The beauty of having a choice of difficulty at all really comes down to two things: easing new players into the game and maintaining the longevity of the game through challenge. There are 4 difficulty levels, if a new player has to play a little longer to get to vet and a vet player has to play a little longer to get to champ and a champ player has to play a little (or bigger gap) longer to play Legend, I don’t think a casual player would even notice. However, we who put a lot of time into your game probably aren’t just doing it for loot progression, while that may be a perk, we’ve learned the ins and outs of the game to play the ‘real game’ at the end. There’s literally no reason to make Legend easy for anyone. There’s 3 difficulties prior and if someone just isn’t that good… well, stay where u are until you are that good. The thing is we’re all playing for fun, if you’re a casual that’s mad that you don’t get to play Legend with the ‘top dogs’, you’re not doing that, whereas if your a ‘top dog’ mad because the game poses no challenge and therefore you have little purpose to keep playing beyond the few hours of sheer novelty, that’s pretty understandable. V1 had a smaller but dedicated community and that game had longevity, people played it until V2 came along, that’s almost 3 years and those there from the beginning would not have remained there if they were able to solo everything within 2 weeks.

End point: There’s no reason those that find they can’t complete maps on Legend at high rates can’t play a lower difficulty where they can; if it’s still challenging enough that you’re not completing MOST of the time then why increase difficulty? Yet, people will say they couldn’t complete because there were mechanics that were impossible to overcome (lots of disablers), yet people were completing it over and over with duos without fail. Obviously, these mechanics were overcome by them through game knowledge and skill and those so sure they’re playing as good as anyone can aren’t. There’s a lot of reason there should be challenge enough to keep the vets and people that genuinely love the game and are willing to play and learn for long periods to become capable of taking on that challenge occupied more than 2 weeks.

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For my group champion is a COMPLETE cakewalk at this moment and it is so easy compared to Legend its not even funny.

The really hard part about Legend is the fact that you sometimes just loose and there are unfair situations.
Something like: Units literally spawning around you, silent/stuck chaos warrior patrols that if you pull them you just loose or boss + ambush + special spam if you decide to not wait for a wave before going into an area.

I cannot say how hard legend is right now because sometimes we complete 4 runs in succession which are easy and then the next 5 stuff happens that just ends your run.
And I bet FatShark have no intend of making Legend easy but want to remove unfair situations and when the game runs properly maybe even make it harder.

Just look at this video and tell me, with a straight face, thats a deserved loss.

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for sure buggy stuff like that is stupid and needs to go. the problem is they’ve completely neutered legend right now aside from blatant buggy moments like that. the ambient elites and specials are just…gone. all you get in return is a horde that the range people will mow down while melee stand there looking for a stray that somehow got through or spawned right on top of the group. the only reminder you even have that you actually selected legend is the fact that chaos patrols are enormous, and things still hit you hard. otherwise you could be convinced you selected veteran on accident.

when the difficulty goes from something that required you to be on your toes the entire run to it becoming so empty people can’t even pay attention and do stupid sh*t out of boredom, all in the matter of one patch, then something has went horribly wrong. it’s not even a fun difficulty anymore and i was more entertained by someone’s girlfriend drama on discord than the game until it was like “oh right, we’re at skarrik”

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This is literally exactly how I feel. As Merc/WHC player I went from having to pull my weight and get punished for a mistake, to sitting back and dealing with the occasional straggler. I legit remember thinking after my 3rd game in a row, I could sit this out and my team would do this on their own easily. I just made a new character, level 1 on champ and had all single digit teammates on HALESCOURGE which up until boss was a literal faceroll. Some people are too oblivious to notice. Trust me I know from playing MP games, they probably just assume they ‘got gud’ all of a sudden. Sounds like a wise-crack but from playing Overwatch for 2 years you pick up on this stuff (guy thinks hes a beast because he had a good team, loses next game, then blames team because he won last game so he must be good).

I sunk exactly 563 hours into Vermintide 1, and was super excited for the sequel. But after just 80 hours, i’m already bored and have stopped playing. OP has the right of it, end game difficulties are where you go to test yourself and have fun losing, not to grind for f*cking hats. Please Fatshark, give us a challenge.

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Good post. Agreed if you cant play legend, then play easier difgiculties instead of nerfing legend

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Prior to the nerf I had completed Legend runs on multiple maps (not all). It felt like a bigger challenge than Cata in VT1. Now it feels easier than Cata.

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Revert Legend to how it was in patch 1.0.3 please, this is ridiculous there is no challenge anymore let alone parts of the maps are completely desolate of elites or any enemies.

I put over 1000hours into VT1 and loved every minute of it in Cataclysm, yet here I am not 200+ hours in and one patch literally has ruined my enjoyment of VT2 due to the nerf.

Legendary at the moment feels nothing more then Champion 2.0 , you take more dmg and thats about it.
Return the elites, give us back the Legendary prior to patch 1.0.4.

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While you make good points, this is just a copy of the other thread on the front also complaining about the legend changes. We don’t need two, you could have just posted your opinion in the other one as a reply.

Ya’ll are overexaggerating how easy legend was, and is in its current state, or mabye you’re blinded by nostalgia. I was able to clear levels on cataclsym easily, but even post rework V2’s legend still gives a lot of difficulty. The jump from Champion to Legend was way too steep, it’s more manageable now.

Do not do this. The changes made were a good start in shifting Legend from being unfairly difficult to a more skill-based challenge, and this is a blatant overexaggeration of how maps are.

A game difficulty where your success is entirely dictated by RNG is stupid as hell. Had 1.03’s Legend been more like Cataclysm in the first game, where enemies were all significantly more bulkier and harder to deal with, forcing players to play smarter and more cohesively, I’d have loved that. But it wasn’t that at all. It was a gambling, a series of dice rolls made to determine whether you’d wipe in an encounter or not.

The problem was that the sheer number of specials and armored units spawned, haphazardly, in the middle of hordes and bosses, gave little to no chance of counterplay. The game director would suddenly decide ‘hey, time to lose’, and hurl 2 patrols of chaos warriors unavoidably into your boss fight. Or maybe this time you’ll lose to three leeches and two assassins during a swarm, all within .5 seconds of each other, entirely unnanounced. That’s completely miserable and I’m glad it’s gone.

Just saying somethings unfair and not skill based doesn’t make it true because it’s beyond YOUR capacity to deal with. So the multi-disabler spawns were unfair and not skill-based? There were a fair amount of Waystalkers/Pyros/even bounties that would eliminate them before they got a disable off and even on multispawn it’s never impossible to avoid each one’s grab/leap through movement and the packmaster was more positionally dependent to deal with in multispawns which makes bad players think “well I couldn’t move anywhere and he grabbed me”. But you could’ve kited or picked a fight in a better location where this would be much easier to deal with. People could solo the game with unfavorable RNG pre-patch, it wasn’t unfair, it was harder.

The biggest joke in this comment is you imply the patch made it more skill-based. By lowering the skill-ceiling and floor? What skill-based element was ADDED through removal of these things that skill could deal with (just more than the average joe has). It reduced the skill-ceiling of special-killers role, increased effectiveness of already employed positional strategies to the point where hordes are guaranteed no-wipe if you hold them, it decreased need for controlling elements, instead the emphasis is now on simply shooting or swiping crowds to one shot everything; there’s hardly even a place for an elite killer now and boss fights were almost always guarantee no-wipe in isolation, they were interesting in combination with other elements. You’re one of those people, if the jump from champ to legend was too much, STAY CHAMPION? If you’re able to 100% champion, you’re probably able to 50% Legend bare minimum.

Maybe I am over-exaggerating, but my group went from having to run a single map multiple times to get a win (creating strategies, planning for scenarios, designating strictly who did what when) to being able to just go in and stand a good chance of winning with strats on the fly.

Maybe we just “leveled up” or something. Maybe it’s not even a BAD thing. But it does seem to be noticeable.

so…increase the timer for special spawns during a boss? that isn’t unreasonable. there’s no need to literally cut the special and elite count in half when the wipes were due to the director spazzing out. all the other spawns in between was the barrier that kept people out. now, a coordinated group blazes through it and pubbing results in ironbreakers that don’t swap off their drakefires, siennas and elves that can’t stop friendly fire or fire over the ironbreaker holding a narrow hallway with a flamethrower instead of covering the other direction a horde is coming from, bounty hunters that will never hit their skill on a chaos warrior, krubers trying to get a gutter runner off you by meleeing with a coach gun instead of doing ANYTHING ELSE as you go from 100% to 0, nobody using comms or holding a choke during ambushes and hordes and instead opting to split off and run around aimlessly, and good players having even less of a desire to play with randoms than before because stuff like this is the mess you see in a 3 hour game session.

legend was the one place people could avoid this garbage that creeped up into every other difficulty as they systematically got nerfed and now it’s become something you either roll over with your mates unless a blatant bug happens like a patrol spawning on your face, or it’s an endless headache of playing with people that never learned mechanics and teamplay due to constant difficulty nerfs turning every other setting into a theme park.

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