Are you planning al least to think about that talent change? Because Maim is totally overshadowed by the other two.
One in the Eye means simply more dps toward everything (bosses included);
Ed even if someone wanted to use a “bodyshot build”, Make 'em Bleed would be still better, because it means +20% damage for the entire enemy’s health (= more damage than +30% but only during second half of HP. Also because, for example, we use the ult and pots when the boss has +50% hp… we can’t wait that it gets damaged). But I repeat, even just to think about a bodyshot build… is just fantasize. We have (apart a bad Maim) only headshot based talents.
Maim could be decent only if a player is so “brave” to try a bodyshot build and he already has as teammate a WHC that applies the debuff.
In cataclysm I think every elite can survive 2 longbow shots to the body unless at least 1 of them is a crit which is a what? 30% chance? Also, blood shot isn’t up 100% of the time so it’s not consistently reliable in that regard. And if you wan’t to talk about overpowered then I think you’re thinking of the wrong range weapon for kerillian because the hagsbane is leaps ahead especially when finger rolling.
Keri longbow does 34 damage per bodyshot on a armored dummy, so a double shot is 68.
You´re telling me the stormvermin have more than 68 health in Cata? I mean i havent actually played it so i dont know but it seems kinda ludacrious to me O_O
Yeah most single shot range weapons end up being rather terrible in cataclysm because you can’t 1 shot elites or even most specials without a headshot or lucky crit and headshots are too unreliable under panic situations.
Honestly I like Waystalker and, mainly in this situation where the game can be unfair, I would not like to see a nerf to her… But you right: bloodshot overshadows Huntsman. There is a bad balance.
Just how much extra damage does the second shot do? A normal aimed longbow bodyshot does 34 on armored target.
Blodshot ought to do 64 but if the second shot benefits from stagger applied by the first then it could possibly do a lot more i suppose.
Well before it was the reverse that huntsman could 1hit KO stormvermin on bodyshot while Keri needed like 2-3 shots so most waystalker players have gotten used to headshots x)
But well either way i think its fine for him to have better damage (and more penetration) when he lands charged headshots while she is just faster but hits for less and gimmicks like blodshot kinda break this dynamic.
Either it goes or he needs something equally good on his side to establish some balance between the two, and to be honest given the cata healthbars i lean towards the later here.
A single elgi Longbow to the belly of a SV does 34.50 damage. Times two we got 69. A SV got 86.5 health. So 25% Skaven/Armored will do the trick quite nicely. 20% is enough if you pick the 7% extra power.
Huntsmans partially charged Longbow does 28.75. His fully charged does 53.75 damage. The later takes nearly twice as long as fireing twice with the elgi bow. The no reload time on the elgi bow plus the ability to do full damage whenever makes it a heck of a lot more desirable even without bloodshot.
Just in case its not obvious. No achievable amount of extra damage vs will make the Huntsman Bow able to one shot a Cata SV even if you take the extra 7% power.
In the end the Huntsman bow is a steaming pile of garbage compared to the elgi weapon. Especially considering the multiple situations your reload animation gets stuck.
The second arrow doesn’t inflict more damage thanks first arrow stagger effect, because they are simultaneous. The damage per arrow is the same, but it still is enough to bodyshot a SV.
If you have some other doubts about breakpoints, ask me without problems!
The problem is that, when HS could bodyshot Stormvermin while WS can’t do that, the elf had other tradeoff, like a faster and more versatile and accurate Longbow. Now HS does less damage and he also has a more goofy/awkward weapon.
I agree. Also without Bloodshot (that anyway it’s impossible to have it “off” during an horde), Elf Bow is still better, because it kills every Special + SV with two arrow… exactly how Human Bow must do (except for Fire/Gatling rat). But Elf Bow is faster, more accurate and more versatile.
The title of the thread is about the feeling of the Character, and I’ll make it fairly plain from my point of view (Legend only, not buying cata)
I think the crux of the problem with HS is that, as a skill based-headshot reward class, the “reward” for getting a head shot isn’t good enough and his talents should be built around causing big damage for headshots OR get rid of the headshot thing all together.
Examples would be a talent that adds +1% power for every elite/special headshot up to a maximum of +10%, losing it at death, or elite/specials headshots give a +1% increase in reload speed up to +% losing it on getting hit, or elite/special headshots give damage reduction up to a maximum of + %
My point I suppose is that consistent headshots against elites/specials should be rewarded, and this could be the thing that makes the HS stand out alongisde his peers a little more. If built properly, I think a HS with a handgun should be able to one-shot headshot a CW having built up the power necessary through good headshots.
By Having cumulative effects as part of his talent tree you could reward consistently good play with increased damage, reload speed or damage mitigation. Instantaneous or very limited talent choices (by this I mean - for example- the choice that relies on there being a boss at some point) make HS feel lack lustre when compared to a BH with Crossbow.
You can’t compare Huntsman to WS to bloodshot active. Obviously her 2 shots will do more than Kruber’s 1. That’s like assuming BH ALWAYS has crits active and he can one shot pretty much everything. You have to look at the full picture, what talents both careers have available to augment the potential of a weapon or look at the weapon at base value. Kruber’s longbow is OBJECTIVELY stronger at the cost of some accuracy, mobility and speed. If you ignore bloodshots being active, Kruber’s longbow has more breakpoints immediately, One in the Eye and Make Em Bleed give him a few more breakpoints that are CONSISTENT ACROSS ALL SHOTS, not a proc. So there you go, procs are meant to be stronger than constant effects, assuming the procs are up always just means on paper you can do a lot more whereas in reality it’s not true. And if you wanna argue elven longbow is faster but still stand behind bloodshot breakpoints, you can’t, switching weapons to get a melee kill and switching back is WAY slower than Kruber’s fire rate.
Pack Master:
Elgi 2 Arrows
Kruber 3 Partially charged Arrows, or 1 full draw that needs 3 properties (one of which needs to be monster, which kills the partial eshin breakpoint)
Leech/Stormer/Globadier:
Elgi 2 Arrows
Kruber 2 partially charged Arrows with 2 properties, or 2 full draws
Other stuff you might want to shoot:
Monks/Berserker:
Elgi 4 with 1 propertie
Kruber 5 partially with 1 propertie, or 2 full draws with 2 properties
Keep in mind that you can shoot twice with an Elgi Longbow before you are able to shoot one charged arrow with Kruber, while it gets worse down the line, because elgi does not have a reload animation.
Your argument of Krubers Bow having his use because he deals more damage is invalid, since it does not manage to deal enough more damage to make it count. As I said before, even without Bloodshot the elgi Longbow is far superior atm.
Also Bloodshot is something very fluid and natural to use. Kill stuff with your melee, spot elite or special, dodge back, shoot, back to melee.
Elf Longbow with Bloodshot: it has better breakpoints than Human Longbow. I don’t talk “on paper”, I play Cata every day. During horde (when Specials are dangerous) you have almost (95%) Bloodshot always active; moreover Elf Longbow is faster, more versatile and more accurate;
Elf Longbow without Bloodshot: with the little exception of Fire/Gatling rat, also without Bloodshot, Elf Longbow has the same breakpoints (1 headshot or 2 bodyshots)… and it’s still faster, more versatile, etc etc;
One in the Eye doesn’t add none breakpoints toward Specials or SV. It’s good toward CW, but also WS and BH have “their resources” against CW;
Trueflight doesn’t 1 shot CW on cata. Why bring BH into the discussion when we are talking about huntsman and comparing it to WS. One in the Eye adds a breakpoint to legend CW 1 hs crit, which is still a valid use for the talent. Both that and Make Em Bleed have use vs bosses. Kruber’s longbow has better breakpoints for marauders and berserkers and much better damage vs super armor.
You have talked about BH for first, anyway doesn’t matter, let’s go in topic:
Trueflight doesn’t shot CW on Cata, but few things can do that (I think only BH ult). Anyway yep, damage vs CW can be an Huntsmasn advantage. Or stealth, another advantage for sure. But also Keri has some precious advantages, like HP regen, infinite ammo without any effort (while HS needs headshots and crits), the possibility to instantly kill a special without even aiming, the possibility to kill quickly a group of monks/bersekers/SV… regardless breakpoints, every ranged career has pro and cons. For this reason breakpoints and weapon features are the balance needle. So, if Huntsman has a less fast and versatile weapon, with also worse breakpoints, how it happens, there is a balance problem;
Make em Bleed is useful toward bosses, sure, but the damage vs bosses (if you don’t hit every single time the head, thing that is almost impossible) is too low anyway in order to be “an Huntsman advantage”. Fire ball and Hagbane are the only two ranged weapons useful vs bosses. Anyway, if you can score always headshot, also Elf Longbow is very very good, and it can reach a similar dps as Human Longbow (less damage per shot, but more rate of fire);
Nope, toward Monks and Berserker is better WS. Apart her ult, that can melt 5-6 monks/berserkers at time… Elf Longbow can kill them just with one more arrow than Human Longbow… but as said, Elf Lonbow has better dps and it’s more accurate, so you can kill them much easier. About super armor, I have already written above.
