I see this as the main problem.
Head priority on strikedown is a must and the multiplier should also increase for strikedown attacks. Forcing players to either pick bleed or +power blessings is fine in my book.
They could also sprinkle in a slight Stubber (and maybe Ripper) nerf with the buff, Ogryns mainly doing ranged is starting to p*** me off quite a bit (mainly due to the ogryn’s size).
I think they can leave those weapons alone. Maybe they’re a little strong but they never ruin my gameplay as a consequence. The flamer occasionally, not always, would make it so I sometimes had nothing to do. But the ripper and heaviest stubber never do this. They’re just strong weapons.
As to the damage i’d be happy just to see more first target damage on all weapons.I suspect if all of ogryn’s light attacks had thunder hammer heavy swing energy they’d be fine. Kills 1st target (on headshot) then use the cleave damage and distribution profile they already have. Boom. Done. Good feeling ogryn bonkers.
Is there any chance you could explain more in depth why the rippers and stubbers should get a slight nerf? Other people enjoying a playstyle should not be the basis for that. Since you do make a note of the size of the Ogryn, I’m guessing they are frontliners which are going full blaze with their ranged weaponry perhaps? This might be a more common sight if they do add the Gunlugger subclass aswell.
CUHVERIN FIAH, SAH!
Not sure where the Stubber shade comes in, but Rippergun is absurd at the minute. Except Ripper 6.
Can you quantify absurd? Ive played with both and neither come away feeling like they trivialized my game or killed all the things ™
This is basically it. The Ripper and Stubbers are efficient enough that it’s fine for the ogryn to stand in a doorway, or other places blocking the view from others. With Sharpshooter in the team the ammo is also a non-issue (I haven’t really run into any ammo goblin ogryns). It isn’t actually powerful enough to be better than a dedicated mid-range Vet setup, but it’ll do the job.
I can’t even say they are all bad players, many of them just don’t care for other players or don’t notice what they are doing. It isn’t the issue with other ranged classes that might get in the way, since you can usually just go a step to the side, or something, but not with Ogryn.
While the new Stubber got a bit too much range for the dakka, I don’t really mind. Ripper is also fine.
Really good ogryn players I see with they only use them in key scenarios letting others who would be better at it take care of the shooters (if there are any loadouts like that), but I guess the fantasy is just too good.
I don’t think that would be that much of an issue. Gunlugger would probably work similarly to the Vet, meaning less survivability, and no engage ability (that can also break the line of fire), so I’m pretty sure players would act differently. Gunlugger’s (pretty obvious future) better damage output would also make it less irritating I guess.
So to reiterate: I don’t really mind the damage or the efficiency, but it incentives anti-teamwork play.
This is basically the second time something like this irritates me. (first being void strike nuking the horde I’m burning with Purge staff)
I didn’t care about, flamer or purg blinding the screen or clearing a horde, I don’t mind bolter taking out elites, I don’t mind pre-nerf PS vet cutting down the 3 ragers, players shooting my BB target as psyker, or vet running camo. This is basically the first time where I feel like (unintentionally) players can work against me super efficiently preventing me from having an input on the situation.
Ripper is better burst damage than GG on heavy targets, with the option to armor pierce, and has easily the best psynergy with Ogryn’s play style. Imo Rumbler and Rippergun outclass all Ogryn range by a mile, followed by Gorgonum, and then the rest.
Play Vet with more than 1 Ogryn in the team? Instant swap to plasma.
Ok but you have to run up and poke it with your spikey bit to get that, at which point its just melee with ammo and not a ranged weapon.
The point is you can run BB with it which is s*it against crushers.
No, no I mean that’s why Ripper is better than Gorgonum.
BTW, had a game months ago with three ogryn when everyone was running GG and rumbler, and oh boy was I just the ammo supply boy. It was HiD and there was so much CC enemies couldn’t even stand up, I didn’t even have to melee. These guys were so good they even killed the snipers the other side of the maps in 1 seconds, and boxed all the mutants (I was running demo team). At least I was happy they had a good time with the infinate ammo supply, was a pretty fun to see it all.
If you think that ogryn does the least amount of damage, just bring a machinegun.
You kill hordes before the flamer zealot can even reach them, and you spray down elites and specials before the veteran can aim at them.
If you think that’s grand wait til you get a load of the Rumbler, which doesn’t force you into dakka and can make for some pretty nuts damage numbers just spamming rounds into horde between butcher swings. With even more gratuitous ammo sustain than any Ogryn weapon if a vet is in the lobby and even if they aren’t because 5 grenades back from a small pack is very questionable with its power. Routinely massacre second place in damage, my best Gorgon rounds in dog mode where I literally have ammo to shoot the entire game and do I can pull like 2/3 at best.
A couple of months ago, my only ranged weapon that i did not consider trash was the ripper MKII.
And the rumbler which was nice on lower levels but not so much in damnation.
Now the gorgonum, the stubber, the rumbler, the ripper(s), and still for people who like it the grenade gauntlet are all decent choices.
Gorgonum probably needs some adjustments considering how strong it is but all are good tools if you want to use them and change your kit and have fun with one.
To be honest I consider this to be the greatest balanced ranged weapons ver any other class.
Well, the subject of this is the Ogry melee damage though.
And the toolkit of the ogyn there is really lacking anything satisfying to play with that goes along with the Ogryn brute strength.
All we get is some stagger and stagger is not enough to be satisfying as weapons are right now.
Sadly you didn’t read the thread, it seems. As i mentioned previously: The existence of a singular weapon with a very specific blessing combination, does not alleviate the problem of the players expectation vs reality when it comes to you hitting things as Ogryn.
If anything it is a testament to the fact that the Slaughterer Blessing is to powerful. But that isn’t what this topic should be about.
The point of this thread is not: “Hey people i can use Slaughterer/Headtaker Blessing to fix my issue, and turn my Zealot into a Killing god with” The thread is about “Hey people, if my Ogryn hits something with a sharpened metal bar, that should do more damage than my Zealot/Veteran does with their respective swords, because the Ogryn is twice as big and seemingly twice as strong”.
And when the Devs get around to actually fixing Slaughterer and Headtaker, then suddenly the band-aid every Ogryn employs right now, will be gone and we will once again be back to everyone just shooting. As it is the case right now… because however one might feel like about the situation, the fact that people rather shoot their guns already tells you all you need to know about the Orgyns state of melee.
Ogryns state of melee is quite frankly not as bad as you might think. Every single weapon on Ogryn works just fine with suboptimal perks/blessings. It will just be like fighting against the wind but it still works. With exception the shield. The shield is absolutely horrible and it needs to be stronger in someway. I don’t know how… I just know it needs to be better.
Sure Slaughter makes the knife an unstoppable force but so does savage sweeps. So does confident strikes to a certain extent. And also that’s only for one of the knives.
I think one big issue is the fact that most blessings on Ogryn weapons are basically just filler. They are essentially useless. Which leaves you only a very limited selection of options you can choose from.
Also there’s the issue of balance. If you make something too strong ehem Powersword it tends to become a one trick pony. I know from doing just a quick scope on any of the social media platforms that everyone thinks Ogryns should run around with the MK3 knife. But guess what, The other weapons are just as powerful already. You just need to find the setup that works for each weapon.
Personally I prefer using my other setup that I actually posted. Bully Club/Ripper. It’s much more fun. Uses a completely different perk setup and it also makes you feel like more of a BULLY. Which is fun.
But I know some people claim the bully club is too weak and I’m like eh? no, it’s really not. You just need to figure out how to use it properly. Which attack pattern works best for which situation etc.
That being said. I find it difficult for Fatshark to try and find a way to balance Ogryns melee feel compared to other classes. I main Ogryn. I play Ogryn ALOT. And I promise you. Imo. They are the strongest class in the game. And absolute Powerhouse as long as you are smart about it and try to compensate for your own weaknesses. So to me, buffing Ogryns melee weapons is not the right way to go. It would just make the class bonkers broken.
TL:DR - Ogryns are a powerhouse in melee with all their weapons except shield. Most people just haven’t found what works best for them yet. Do your own trial and error and it becomes a very satisfying journey. Oh also, buff Zealots. They really need some love.
I’m sorry but that is demonstrably false. The raw numbers prove it so. Other ogryn melee are all viable but none of them are good except the BB and maybe Krourk. Only the shield is truely garbage but the other weapons do not match the expectation of an ogryn at all. He swings very weakly when he should be hitting like a truck. Fatshark basically used stagger instead of damage to differentiate him between the zealot and have him not be totally OP. Because, frankly, he’s way underpowered in Darktide from a lore perspective. And I mean WAY. In 40K tabletop right now a plasma gun shoots at strength 7. An ogryn with a maul swings at Strength 7. So every light swing he makes should be hitting for about 500~ damage if were using that as a translation. Though its a bad one because boltguns do around 400~ and are S4. Instead we should probably have plasma guns and ogryn swinging for around 700~. Now I’m not saying they should because if you think the powersword was a problem imagine the ogryn doing that with some club on lights. Lmao. But I maintain he could afford to onetap for just first target against poxwalkers and groaners without ruining game balance at all. That’s around 200-300 damage depending on how buffs are being handled. That puts his lights with any weapon within the same range as a zealot with a combat axe.
Raw numbers are not everything. If I went with raw numbers I would not be using anything except the mark 3 knife and the Ripper gun. This is a “tide” game. As with Vermintide, Vermintide 2 and yes even Darktide it’s never about the numbers on the weapons but mainly about breakpoints in most cases. If you can hit a breakpoint to 1 or 2 shot kill a specific enemy then that’s a good thing. Anything above that is either a bonus or a waste of stat.
Also I was kinda expecting that this would lead to the lore aspect of Ogryns and yes, they are very brutal in the lore but you have to differentiate between lore and game balance. Devs need to focus on the balance rather than adhering to the lore. They should obviously take hints from the lore for the game but if devs are supposed to follow the lore then yeah… Goodbye powerwords for veterans and goodbye thunderhammer for zealot. Those weapons are rare and there’s no way the Imperium would waste such valuable technology on mere grunts of the Astra Militarum.
As for the Bully Club. Since it is my main weapon of choice on Ogryn. The reason why they cannot buff the club is simple. It would make every other weapon the Ogryn has obsolete.
The Club has amazing versatility. It works against anything. It’s without question the strongest melee weapon vs. enemy ogryns given you can 3 shot a crusher with heavy attacks while also having amazing horde control. Also the stagger of the club is insane. And besides, you already are one shotting poxwalkers and groaners with the club. Just heavy attack. The clubs heavy attack one shots most enemies except the stronger ones which are mostly 2 shots.
But I get it. The club doesn’t feel as good vs hordes compared to the knife? Try this then the next time you fight a horde using the bully club.
Light > heavy > light > heavy > light > heavy and repeat until they are all dead. Instead of doing what most people do and just spam lights.
There’s also the issue with perks being kinda important on certain weapons for them to work more efficently. The club for example has little need of dmg vs armor since it already has penetration multiplier which makes you hit the 1-2 shot breakpoint on most enemies with armor.
Regardless in the end it’s up to the devs. For me personally I would really scratch my head if they for example buffed the Bully Club. I would be smiling happily but confused. Still, trying to maintain balance while also staying true to lore is quite difficult in a game setting.
