Why does the Ogryn do the least amount of damage?

99 light attack damage

That is what everyone is complaining about for a lot of these weapons.

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Bull Butcher does do great damage and you can indeed equip weapons that covers eachothers weaknesses such as your second example, but there still is some weapons and combinations of weapons that falls short on just the basic thing of being able to clear off groaners and poxwalkers in a reliable manner.

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Noticed this a ton lately (read as all the time). You can’t say anything on this gd forum without someone taking issue and going overly pedantic on your ass.

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They have a weird body part prioritisation where if you cleave head and body on the same enemy it counts as a body hit.

hey now, I reserve the right to beat the nearest windmill to death and court all the prettiest ladies as a consequence.

But in this case it was because a lot of people genuinely seem to believe there are “melee classes” and “ranged classes” and they shouldn’t overlap.

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I don’t agree that Ogryns do the least amount of damage.

I do agree that right now there’s a bit of a weird balance between Ogryn Ranged and Melee, where if you aren’t using the Bull Butcher your Ranged weapon is very important (and powerful). The gulf between BB and ‘the rest of melee’ is just too much, however.

Please buff Shovel.

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I need to understand this.

I tried the Bull Butcher in the holodeck and I could not for the life of me get any good DPS against armoured targets. A charged power maul makes short work of almost anything though.

What am I missing? there is something because a lot of people are singing the BB praising song.

The Bull Butcher has an overpowered damage profile against everything except Carapace. Against Carapace you’ll want to bring an appropriate ranged weapon.

The Bull Butcher not only comes with a ridiculous damage profile but it also has slaughterer. Lets look at what happens when you’re fighting a horde and hitting 6 at a time, then compare it to a power maul. All of these numbers you can find via wartide here.

Against a Poxwalker horde the BB with Slaughterer maxed will deal 970 damage per light attack. This is a naturally occuring event that requires no set up.

Against a Poxwalker horde the L3/L4 attacks of Power Maul (these are the rotated attack chain) deal 238.58 per light attack.

The BB is just over 4 times as much damage in these scenarios.

For reference the damage profile from target 1 to target 6 for these weapons are:

BB:
323.4
258.72
194.04
97.02
48.51
48.51

Power Maul:
99
57.075
37.5
15
15
15

There’s plenty of other times the BB is just superior. Against Dreg Ragers the BB will deal 138.6 damage versus 49.5 damage (L3/L4 again), so almost 3 times as much. Against Scab Ragers the BB will deal 145.10 damage versus 89.22 damage, or slightly less than double. These figures are without Slaughterer (which only pushes the BB to ever more extreme levels), and I have taken the 3rd and 4th attack of the Power Mauls’ pattern (L3, L4) as these are the attacks that ‘rotate’ during spam.

Basically, the BB shreds everything except Carapace and the distance between it and “the rest” is vast.

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Slaughterer? BB still doesn’t kill a lot of elites super fast with slaughterer up but it does straight up stagger bully them with light attack spam. You can also use knock em down, beat em up to get some meaty heavy attacks on elites between slaughtering hordes.

Then you have GG as pretty much the perfect pairing to dumpster most elites, even 2 shotting reapers with the heavy weight feat.

So you clear horde extremely well while bullying elites and the moment slaughter drops off and there’s no more trash around to generate stacks just pump a few grenades into whatever is left. It’s an extremely efficient loadout that basically covers every possible enemy type.

You can swap your weapons roles and use melee with Paul or Clubs for elites and a gun suited to hordes, but since hordes are potentially infinite based on team’s pace through level while elites are finite I’d rather have my melee cover hordes and let my ranged weapon be anti elite/special.

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I’ve added pretty pictures to compare BB w/ Slaughterer vs Power Maul (L3/L4), then BB w/ Slaughterer vs Shovel L3. The graph is damage (Y axis) vs target number (X axis).

I do acknowledge there’s many many different attacks I could look at, but these are the ones I’ve chosen to consider horde clear.

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thanks @Aufgebracht and @alsozara. I clearly need to look into this.

I bring the heaviest of the stubbers along now because it makes short work of all elites except the really heavily armoured ones, for which I use the power maul. I tend not to waste ammo on hordes (unless I have a lot, it’s fun after all) but the pm works well for me there as well. I also like that I am able to take care of ranged and I just don’t think the ammo count of the GG is good enough to just take pot shots at ranged behind cover.

With all of that said, I’m happy to try alternatives. I used to go with the shield (and I still like it but it’s just so bad DPS-wise). I also think ammo is too plentiful in maps in general.

I clear damnation runs, but it’s always fun to improve. I don’t bother too much with perks and blessings though. It’s not because I don’t want to, but I just can’t stand the crafting system as it is now.

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You do have a fantastic weapon combo there - the big stubber and the Power Maul are both really strong weapons and compliment each other well. The Power Maul is very well regarded, it’s just not the OP level that the Bull Butcher sits at, and isn’t always directly comparable as it does different things.

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Ogryn bull butcher easily tops the charts every time.

As of everything, it’s about using the meta weapon with the overtuned traits :smiley:

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Any weapon that has access to a 50% damage or +75% power talent is currently on the op side.
Wait for balance patch.
Oh wait.

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Great stats, thanks so much. @Aufgebracht

The power maul is sadly deeply inferior in horde clear, as are most clubs. The power maul has great aoe stun and has good armor damage and so it is an option if you want a melee solution to armor blobs. But against hordes its really sad.

Even a non-slaughterer BB will absolutely shred a horde by comparison. My friend used to use a Pmaul when it came out and i was using a crucius. One day we ran out of ammo and needed to duo a horde. With no other horde clear available we literally couldn’t kill them fast enough. Like go to the psykhanium and get rid of the first two light attacks (which can only kill like one walker for BOTH swings, bleh!) And then see how many hits it takes to kill ONE walker and you’ll see why i am complaining. it has great stagger and is far from useless but it is so comparatively weak it feels horrible on the weakest chaffe in the game.

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Great stats and blessings are part of it,

The flipped side is, on damnation even a lot of Zealot weapons don’t do enough damage on body shots to one hit Poxwalkers. The key is to still achieve it is doing all head shots. The reason I can constantly one shot things on Thunder Hammer despite the downside is that it allows a nice level swing giving you all head shots when at the proper height with heavy attacks, same with Eviscerator.

The real difference with Thunder Hammer and Eviscerator is that I can power them up on Charge and do a 1000+ damage attack with them. But Thunder Hammer still requires head shots in most cases to one-hit some things, like Reapers. Yeah it can do a 3000+ damage attack, but only on the headshot. On Monstrosities its different but still requires the headshot.

They key really is a lot of head shots on Damnation level play. I think this applies to a lot of Ogryn weapons as well. This is something you just kinda build into you from Vermintide, because its the same way there.

For the record I have seen Ogryns wipe out hordes incredibly fast with that Grenade Gauntlet by spamming it into a horde. It was about as fast as Psychers with their Voidstrike.

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Yes but zealot heavies come up MUCH faster than ogryn heavies and many ogryn weapons have a body priority on hit detection. So you end up with this problem where you’re swinging 90-120~ damage with no rising conviction, slaughterer or headtaker blessings to buff damage, and just spamming lights. Damnation poxwalkers have 300HP so you’re looking at a consistent 3 swing kill. Which is just a heinous heretical crime against the lore might of ogryn.

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I see this as the main problem.

Head priority on strikedown is a must and the multiplier should also increase for strikedown attacks. Forcing players to either pick bleed or +power blessings is fine in my book.

They could also sprinkle in a slight Stubber (and maybe Ripper) nerf with the buff, Ogryns mainly doing ranged is starting to p*** me off quite a bit (mainly due to the ogryn’s size).

I think they can leave those weapons alone. Maybe they’re a little strong but they never ruin my gameplay as a consequence. The flamer occasionally, not always, would make it so I sometimes had nothing to do. But the ripper and heaviest stubber never do this. They’re just strong weapons.

As to the damage i’d be happy just to see more first target damage on all weapons.I suspect if all of ogryn’s light attacks had thunder hammer heavy swing energy they’d be fine. Kills 1st target (on headshot) then use the cleave damage and distribution profile they already have. Boom. Done. Good feeling ogryn bonkers.

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Is there any chance you could explain more in depth why the rippers and stubbers should get a slight nerf? Other people enjoying a playstyle should not be the basis for that. Since you do make a note of the size of the Ogryn, I’m guessing they are frontliners which are going full blaze with their ranged weaponry perhaps? This might be a more common sight if they do add the Gunlugger subclass aswell.

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