Where are the balance patches?

I don’t know about you, but I have already compiled a massive book of grudges list of “what I would like to be changed”…
Now I just need to post the link to the doc in a thread here and get crucified by the Vets for powercreeping everything, while Casuals are starting a fire at my feet for overnerfing everything.

As long as you buff the Sigmarites and our friends under the mountains of course, and nerf those heretical elves, bathwater-worshippers and other miscreants, you have my approval.

1 Like

Actually, Bathwater-worshippers need some help…
Having one predominant build with only a few variations is not that good.
But I am glad to have your interest

@Aqshy confirmed during the stream earlier that they were working on balance, but she said that we’d have a peek in the dev stream in 4 weeks so I guess it’ll be a bit longer before we get to have fun again.

She also confirmed that the balance changes are minor. So having a massive pitch to throw at them might still be a good idea

She didn’t say they were minor :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

Twitch 00:39 :

“We’re looking to implement some balance changes in our next major update, and while we’re not looking at a full rebalance at this time, we are looking to adress some of the major outliers in both terms of careers and chaos wastes grudgemarks”

Okay, she said they weren’t big.
I just read it as “if they are not major, then they are minor”.

1 Like

I like this suggestion.
BTW some of the engineer buffs suggested in the file are over the top in my opinion (superior gasket and ablative armor).
As for pyromancer I’m not a fan of removing overcharged slowdown. I think that should be unique to the unchained. I’d do something different instead (I know she’s currently Sienna’s worst career, but they could go a different way other than pushing her towards melee. IIRC she already had a talent for speed on high overcharge, which mitigated the slowdown effect. or maybe it was swift slaying proccing more often, I don’t remember).
Regardless I’d have her stay true to the concept (long abandoned) of her being the single target deleter sienna. This should be her bosskiller class, she should work like a BH of sort.

3 Likes

Well the game has been an absolute mess for a good while now so 4 weeks is really nothing at this point if the changes are even slightly relevant.

Major outliers means stuff so broken that nobody is saying it is weak. And if it stays true to what is said here only for careers which basically means SotT (which would be at least something). No mentioning of weapons at least in the quoted part.

And even if we get a SotT rebalance it is still questionable if it will be again a list of non-.nerfs or if they get it right this time. Like they could still change five talents of her and just make the career broken differently like making her more support but her buffs give the team so much damage that they wipe everything. Actually … IF Fatshark considers SotT a major outlier.

I agree. Both from Lore perspective and from gameplay / balance perspective the slowdown should stay. They should remove the Doctrine and then balance around from there. Also saying that Engineer doesn’t need any buffs. For official realm the suggestions are completely over the top.

Well, will be interesting to see what Fatshark actually considers outliers.

Well, independent if you get feedback or not from the community or even if the suggestions are awful: More suggestions per se are never something bad. And I think Fatshark reads most threads so they probably have already formed their own opinion of a lot of stuff but just don’t come around to do it. It only gets problematic if you make bad suggestions and for some reason they are implemented in the game :stuck_out_tongue:

3 Likes

You can pretty much already do this with her. Just wish there was a Stagger/Shrapnel debuff counter on the scoreboard.

With Repel and Blackvenom Thicket, you can keep entire Hordes on the floor, and control Patrol level density.

It’s just all overlooked because the DPS build is so OP, and people seem to be putting the wall on top of their teammates (according to posts on the forums), blocking their attacks.

If you put the wall down, bait all the density into one area and then spam push them into it, and then do damage when the wall pops, you can safely kill stupid amounts of enemies.

Our go-to comps for Cata+ usually have CC SoTT with Wiz, or something with loads of AoE damage for forcing choke points with walls. Still haven’t gotten chance to play with a RV using Bomb build.

On Cata- it’s only really useful for Bosses, Patrols and to save people in tight spots.

Haven’t really experienced this. Not saying it doesn’t happen, but I think every SoTT that joins my QP matches has been using F spam build.

Usually only get one complaint about a wall every couple of maps with a premade, and that’s usually because of Ranged Attacks, which isn’t the end of the world.

If people are Walling on top of 2H users, or blocking Ults, that’s on the player. You can always Ult near to a wall, or behind/to the side of enemies, so there’s like one part of the Wall even showing, which avoids it stopping melee attacks.

I don’t really have a problem with the slowing, as I usually just block, crouch and dodge spam through them. People misplacing them is on them.

It actually takes a bit of game knowledge and practice to make use of, but once you learn how, it’s really strong.

I agree. I think Ironbark should give some sort of defensive bonus, similar to Beastman banners, or even offensive.

Incandescence is just for pooling vs Bosses and Patrols with Bloodrazor Thicket I think, but I don’t like Bloodrazor Thicket anyway. I want to see it changed to an AoE root on a shorter CD or something.

I feel like the only other active Support you could get would be from new Weapons or changes suggested tbh. Repel/Blackvenom/Deepwood combo making you into a caster tank is pretty cool imo.

4 Likes

Great, they are doing stuff. Thats all i wanted. But please, dont just stop then again until next year. The future balance update will obviously not be enough. Not saying because of Fatshark, its just plausible. Balance updates have to be somewhat regular so you can actually try to come to a somewhat proper middleground.

1 Like

Yeah, that was not intended as a serious post.

Yeah, the AA buff is one of the changes I actually disagree with too. AA’s good as is. 10% AS for maximum pressure stacks is more than enough too, it doesn’t need to be higher - the pressure system itself could use tweaks or a rework. I personally find it’s perfectly manageable but I don’t find it fun.

Yeah. Not just that, Unchained is penalised when it comes to OC management, damage can tip her overheat to the point it kills her even in melee. That risk isn’t there with Pyro.

Weirdly FS gave Volcanic Force to BW while the career was already doing better than Pyro. I don’t really know what they should do to have Pyro compete on the single target front, but they should try.

He doesn’t need buffs to his overall power level, but he does have talents that are out of whack and thus never get chosen. Clunkiness is usually his problem. I do stand by my thought Bombardier should be baseline for career flavour however.

+It’d improve bombs as a panic button for him, which is the biggest complaint I see for the career - all other classes have some level of counteracting SHTF moments with their ults (obviously a bit talent dependent) but not OE. If you get cornered his ult won’t help at all.

I love Repel and Blackvenom, they can really help you manage incoming threats extremely well, but I have seen so much braindead use with the walls that I’m extremely wary whenever I get a SotT in the party in QP that uses walls.

I do find it stupid the walls help enemies more than teammates in multiple situations in that they a) eat players’ attacks inc. ults and even GK ults while letting enemies the players now can’t see hit them through it, b) slow players’ movements potentially pinning and trapping them against enemies if the SotT misplaces the wall behind or atop their teammate, and c) block LoS (not as bad as a and b).

What I don’t like about support SotT is she doesn’t have more options to provide support. Really you have: 1) Staff levitate, 2) Repel, 3) Blackvenom, 4) Healing boost passive. Incandescence and Ironbark both suck (Incandescence is flat out pointless when you have CDR per nearby elite killed. Ironbark is just dull and bad). Pale Queen’s Choosing is a strictly selfish talent. I’d like some way to turn A Sustenance of Leechlings around and give (melee) thp to the nearest teammate or so (this would need to be balanced well) to have another avenue to support the team.

5 Likes

I have a horrid feeling the next balance patch will be more weird changes that end up as buffs.

I’m not hopeful for what I like, which is some fairly wide ranging nerfs to loads of the obvious op stuff. Moonfire, javs, mwp in rangers hands, sword and dagger, most anti-boss ults, ws ult returning stupid ammo, bloodshot reworked…

And a big buff to some enemies like skarrik, gatekeeper and monsters in adventure.

There’ll be nothing as wide ranging as this, and higher skill ceiling classes will be given buffs to make them more accessible which make the classes more braindead. Huntsman I’m looking at you. … .

5 Likes

Absolutely zero chance they will do a major balance patch before several months after Sienna’s last career launches.

I mean, it is Fatshark. There’s always the chance they’re cooking up WoM 2.0 and suddenly overnight 1h axe/sword/mace and repeater pistol will become the only viable weapons in the entire game. :rofl:

2 Likes

Seeing PuGs with bad boss dps have to do Skarrik’s mechanics which no one remembers anymore is funny as hell. I actually really like the fight, he just gets burst down so hard 99% of the time.

xD

Mace is actually good imo. 1h axe and swords (off of elf and Pyro) could use some sort of love. But yeah, that could well happen. Or who knows, maybe trollhammer’s push will be the meta melee dps combo :crazy_face:

Balance as far as primary weapons go is decent atm, a lot are viable, some are overtuned, but career and ranged powercreep has set back in. I’d hate for FS to toss the former out the window but the latter has really caused a slip in the difficulties - Legend feels easier than it was. I honestly like Chaos Wastes for that as the starting levels add more challenge back (if you don’t immediately get crazy rolls). The latest ranged weapons have really powercreeped the game.

1 Like

I think this is an important point to keep in mind. Some builds trivialize bosses and lords, but that by no means means that they are too easy. When you don’t get them (it happens to me more often than you think) a boss or a lord fight can take a lot.
Skarrik in particular - although the easiest one - can be surprisingly hard due to the weird superarmor.
Also I don’t agree that lords should be superlong fights, they should take more or less the amount of time a monster does. Maps are long and we’re gonna fight them over and over again.

Still, a cap to damage they can take from a single source could be acceptable.

3 Likes

between 4- 8 seconds with the right team?

I jest.

But the discrepancy between a tank heavy party (FK,IB, WPoS and Unchained) and Boss Killer (GK, Shade, BH, and Ranger MWP) is absolutely idiotic and a nightmare to balance. I consider the onlyreal balance changes that are viable are nerfs to Boss killers ULTs, so they still cause chunk damage but have some kind of damage cap somehow. Or you make Skarrik behave like he’s been on a warpstone fuelled 3 day drinking bender and can shrug off a BH ult to the face while attempting to fight the police, his friends and the floor.

[edit] this still doesn’t make any difference to Hunstman Strength Pot Ult Crit shot to Skarriks face one shotting him. Damage cap for EVERYONE!

4 Likes

I wonder if giving bosses something akin to the slayer’s ols Oblivious to Pain would have been a good idea?
So anything above X number is reduced drastically.

Also! I thin Skarrik needs to be immune to damage until he finished landing (same with the Bodvarr 2.0 in Skittergate during transformation). Maybe even add a shockwave when he lands (like the one Bodvarr does when slamming his axe)

2 Likes

Could even have it stack on damage above the threshold and slowly go away again, so e.g. the first hit above the threshold does full damage, then huge diminishing returns kick in fast and hard (e.g. damage gets halved, then quartered, then eighth’d etc (likely can’t go too far or it’d start to eat into exec, crossbows and other weapon’s niche which is honestly a lot more interesting than ultspamming the boss to death)), but if time passes eventually you can get a full damage hit again. There’d actually be some play there with spamming ults that just do worse and worse chip damage vs keeping them to snipe the boss when they’re low.

The main problem I can see with nerfing the boss damage ults themselves is it will make them feel incredibly lame if it makes them worse vs non boss targets. Especially since (apart from BH 80% CDR and Conc pots) they are mainly abusable due to spam, which could be remedied by CD increases and some sort of hardening mechanic like you suggested vs burst.

If FS can bring it to a good level they can make adjustments to HP to make bosses less troublesome for tank parties.

Edit: I guess a hard upper cap would still be needed as Huntsman + Strength pot and other crazy combos are totally busted, even with halved damage they scale way too high.