I don’t get it. Like is this supposed to be for high difficulty? Max stacks is 9 wounds yet the most wounds you can seemingly get at max difficulty is 7, which means the max stacks would be 6. So then to get the most out of this talent is to play low difficulty where you wouldn’t likely take that much damage anyway. Why isn’t it just tied to a percent of your health?
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Martydom is glass canon build and you have alredy so much damage that it would be overkill. Wounds purpose is more than just for martydom and using martydom at lower difficulty is pointless. Wounds are % of your health so this is just cosmetic change.
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If you already have so much damage what is the point of it then? You’re sacrificing health on curios for wounds when you have enough damage anyway.
In theory, scaling by wounds would allow you to scale the HP requirements with your build (add more wounds, reduce the % HP required per stack from 50% → 33% → 25% and so on) - doing it via HP%, it’d likely just become a mandatory talent (why wouldn’t you take 10% HP per stack instead of 15%, if offered)
In practice… we’re still trying to figure that one out. Since there’s scope for stronger items in the future, curios with +2 wounds could become a thing (which brings you to 9 wounds/8 stacks on Damnation)
tl;dr it’s a bit of a mystery
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That’s some pretty sound logic. Idk if they will add curios like that but if they do it would make it a lot more viable. Since as is on damnation you can’t even get full value out of martyrdom if you’re at 1hp.
Wounds instead of health ultimately balance the build because when you’re 1 health and rely on toughness to save you there are times you will die very quickly. Having the wounds mean you have more chances to go down without dying.
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You should take the supporting nodes in the skill tree for martyrdom.
Bleed for the Emperor reduces damage of big hits (like poxies). It’s like pseudo +health. I Shall Not Fall will increase TDR and could be stacked with the other TDR stuff Zealot has (including 15% from aura, 50% from crits, and the 5% nodes, I even left some out). Of course Until Death and Holy revenant is also mandatory.
This will in theory make you very tanky even while having a small health pool… Until you touch fire.
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try to pair martydom with a weapon that can 1 hit lesser enemy. it would become handy when no heal is available. the attack speed gain is imba tho.
What are you talking about?
If we had a fixed amount of health and a fixed amount of wounds, you would be right.
But wounds and hp are not fixed stats. You can choose to increase one or the other, so how is it just a cosmetic change?
Before, you could run more max hp, which means that you can have more hp remaining while sitting on max stacks, but you only had 2 wounds, which could be dangerous (you won’t go down as easily, but can only get downed once before you die).
Alternatively you could use wound curios so that you can get downed more often, if your low hp playstyle is too dangerous (you go down more easily, but can be downed multiple times before you die).
Now, you run full wounds in order to get more max stacks. No more choiecs to be made. You just sit on a fraction of your base hp, but you have so many wounds that you can get downed as many times as you want (good for trash players, useless for good players).
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This is definition of glass canon. Going down on high difficulty is often start of the wipe but martydom gives you damage to kill most enemies with just one shot, this is a tradeoff. It is for good players that can survive on low health constantly.
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This has nothing to do with what you originally said, or with what i said in response.
Also, you contradicted yourself in this very statement.
Running around with 7+ wounds, is not something for good players who can survive running on low health.
It is something for bad players who get downed constantly.
Switching martyrdom from “% health” to “number of wounds”, makes it extremeny idiot friendly and incentivizes zealots to be a burden on the team.
With % of health, you would play on low % health and your risk would be high.
You had to make a choice regarding +wounds or + health.
Making good plays and knowing, when too much aggressiveness is a bad idea, was important.
With number of wounds missing, you take as many wounds as you can and you can get downed like 7 times between med stations.
No more need for a reasonable thought or anything like that.
Just rush in and if you get downed, your teammates shall risk their own health to come and get you, so that you can repeat the same thing 6 more times.
Can you get up alone when you go down?
I think you should stop thinking about it like this.
There are 2 things to consider.
- Due to Bleed for the Emperor Wound loss (health pool not getting down) decreases damage received by half. I run 2 health curios I have ~300 health, without them ~210. If the extra wounds (6 in total) could make me tankier if the majority of the damage source is big hits.
- As your health gets lower you get some TDR that also makes you tankier, which might be more worth than the lost max health.
When I was running Zealot before the patch I was purposefully running around with 100-170 health (down from the base 300) to have 2-3 stacks of damage active.
Now in the new system running 7 wounds and staying at half health I still have 100+ health with a hefty damage reduction against big hits and extra TDR while receiving massive AS and damage increases. It is very close to my previous playstyle.
Mind you it’s just theory I haven’t really tested this out properly, and there is also the tradeoff of giving up other stuff for it.
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imo it depends on ur playstyle on how to play around matyrdom.
my suggestion is do not drain ur hp on purpose. ive seen a lot of player do it and they cannot sustain and goes down early in the game.
they even neglect the available medicae with the risk of being down and put other teammate in tough situation.
I guess it depends on difficulty too. On heresy I can absolutely just not heal and I’m fine. I’m using an eviscerator and that can kill almost anything in one hit anyway so I feel like martyrdom isn’t really worth.
I responded to something specific that the guy said.
It is not about anything that you mention on your post.
Of course you can still be tanky with many wounds, thanks to certain talents.
That is not my point.
My point is (repeating it for the third time now), that good players generally do not pick many wounds. Because good players do not get downed a lot.
The worse a player you are, the more wounds you have use for.
Getting more dmg for having more max wounds, not only dumbs down the process of making use of the bonus, but also enables garbage players to be a massive burden on the team.
The risk for the zealot player running on low hp is minimized.
If you can get downed 7x, you are not a glass cannon.
Had a few martyrdom zealots in my team that would fit the description…
Im not sure if any of this actually really answers like what is it balanced for? You don’t need it on low difficulty because it’s hard to even take enough damage to get high stacks, but then on high difficulty it’s generally more worth having toughness or health increases so you have more room for error and relying on more consistent damage increases, on top of not even being able to max the stacks on high difficulty even with the maximum amount of wounds.
It never really worked, and even after the rework the risk isn’t really worth it in my opinion. It’s too easy to get downed when playing with little HP left. You also sacrafice extra HP and toughness for wounds. Ironically on higher difficulty you will never reach the top martydom bonus anyway.
It’s easily worth it, I take 2 wound curios, and a toughness one, I get a decent chunk more damage. Run around in my last wound 90% of the time, have Until Death as a second safety and most of the time won’t die unless we actually wipe.
Take an ability and make use of it to get your toughness back so you don’t die.
The point of the build is that there is inherently risk to it but more often than not the benefit of the build should allow you to avoid death.
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