Buff revenant to 50% of possible health recuperated Include 1 or 2 more tiles to the Martyrdom tech tree at the key stones. The defensive ones are all fine but you could add some more damage coherency support buffs on wound loss. That trigger on wound loss. Like the OG zealot before the change. This will allow martyrdom builds to trade more and gain more wounds in-between health stations to support team. Possibly even buff the 2+ wound tile to 3+ wound perhaps to make up for wounds lost on maelstrom and auric.
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The inherent problem with it is that it only makes sense to use if you willing to stack +wound curios, which means you have health/toughness to work with at a particular life. Sure you have a lot of wounds and get picked up many times, but that relies on your team having to constantly pick you up to make your survivability work out. Itās just too risky feeling IMHO.
If it just worked on a % of missing HP (eg every 12.5% missing HP stacking 8 times) it would be a lot better IMHO.
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I have the opinion that Martyrdom is actually a survival build and not a damage build. You can use it to live on the edge so to speak, but I think itās just a misunderstanding of where the power is coming from.
My 3xWound build has around ~230 health, while my standard Evis build with 2xHealth has around ~280.
Bleed for the emperor reduces health damage by 40% when taking a hit that would lose you a wound. If that Node provides at least 50 health value (which it can easily do) I can already take more punishment. You can combine it with Restoring Faith (although I consider it a pricy investment) which can even make it trigger even more times (pushing you over the breakpoints again).
There is more to it with the rising damage+AS+TDR boost, but in general, Iād consider Martyrdom as mainly a high survivability pick for non-crit orientated weapons/builds.
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Agreed. It doesnāt feel good to be picked up all the time though especially when you donāt have the same boosts as we did pre overhaul and it is risky. I would also say the martyrdom and revenant passive augments were also a bit better damage wise. All the current post overhaul augments and synergies make the zealot tankier or deadlier on Redline. Wound loss imo should have some more buffs tied to it on the martyr tree make the zealot more support oriented and revenant improved to allow you more instances to proc wound loss and apply powerful buffs to allies.
While weāre on the topic, is it just me is Inexorable Judgement (the rightmost keystone based around movement stacks) also a little lackluster? Sure it lets you do a big burst of damage but the bonuses are really incremental when youāre in the thick of combat and constantly attacking.
When it comes to Zealot Keystones I feel like Blazing Piety (leftmost, crit stacking one) is by far the best of the three and has the most inherent synergies with other stuff throughout the talent tree.
I like the idea to link bothā¦ maybe as a special node of the martyrdom
That would need to tweak a little the keystone. However, actually, martyrdom is the less interesting option.
Something has to be done about this.
Thatās you
It is actually really powerfulā¦ especially with a combat axe that has BM + decapitator
I use it with weapons that can take advantage to the increase of melee speed. So axes (tact / combat) and eviscerator
Martyrdom seems better for hammersā¦ but thatās really not interesting. I use it with HS also, cause canāt see any good point to use HS with the others keystones.
And fury for critic templates
I probably am going to have the most distinct take on this. I donāt find martrydom to be a problem at all. Most people run toughness or health on their zealot but I have always run +Stamina. Iām pretty sure its not even that good or useful becuase Iām pretty sure it has no effect on sprint, and is only for blocking and pushing. So its just āfineā. But Iāve always felt perfectly tanky as a zealot with good toughness gen and health regen from Faith Restores All. I have a martyrdom build Ive been testing and I donāt find it too hard to run around a few wounds down and never go down. My main issue with it is that with +1 wound curios you cannot hit maximum buff stacks, so the ability literally gets worse the higher the difficulty you choose to play. That needs fixing.
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Yes, they took the wrong trigger.
Wound are linked to difficulty. It was better the old system linked to the % of life lost. It was also something that would reward you more if you had less HP (toughness template by example).
But I like the idea that this keystone could permit to recover more life from revenant.
I would even say that I would have preferred to see holy revenant in the tree of the martyrdom.
This is clearly that. Thatās why the proposition is something I like.
But it already does? You donāt actually have to go down to trigger it you just have to lose health.
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this keystone works a lot better than the talent veteran has that takes 2 points to even access on the bottom of the melee tree. seriously you have to run like 20 reginald heads to start building stacks with that one, and then they fade in like 3 seconds.
however momentum also boosts attack speed on ranged, which makes autoguns absolutely wreck with the good old fury of the faithful.
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Inexorable and piety are both powerful in their own ways and own situations. However piety is more team oriented.
martyrdom is a neat concept, but i think itās kind of dumb to have a keystone ability rely on you, not only taking a lot damage, but staying at low health in order to take full advantage of it. if anything, this should just be some throwaway passive connector early-on in the skill tree. like, if you happen to be low on health, then at least thereās some benefit until you can heal up.
with how it is now, i feel like, āuntil deathā, should be combined with, āholy revenantā, and the spot where holy revenant was should be a simpler version of what martyrdom is now. either that, or have some sort of mechanic that lets you reduce until deathās cooldown if you take martyrdom. that way you can still stay alive, take advantage of the passive effects, and not have to worry about being low health all the time.
I like Martyrdom the way it is, mostly because itās simple.
It makes you faster, stronger and tougher. And you donāt have to worry about any mechanics. You just focus on ripping and tearing.
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I thought this at first but have come to really appreciate the additional benefits it gives besides just damage and attack speed.
For one the bursts of toughness back really helps supplement weapons that donāt benefit too well from your other toughness gain options. It also gives you pretty regular bursts of toughness when running and gunning, which is very appreciated.
Also as pointed out above the increased fire rate is very noticeable. Autoguns can pump out an awful lot of DPS, it feels really great especially for gunning down crushers quickly with fury of the faithful.
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Martyrdom needs to have more coherency based buffs associated with wound loss and have revenant allow me to proc the buffs on wound loss again. Or keep it simple and just have a permanent coherency buff tied to a martyrdom zealot with it going down giving a powerful buff to all friendlies in coherency until that zealot is rezzed. This allows you to have the Martyr theme and still be incredibly useful to the team if you go down.
The issue with Martyrdom is that you need to be redlining just to do almost the same damage of the other builds. Where the other builds have 100 % up time and dont have to take damage or reduce survivability. So if its going to be based around being low health we are gonna need some more coherency based passives that will make martyrdom more useful and benificial to the team.
I get your point. Martyrdom is uneven, and realizing its full potential is not guaranteed.
But in all cases, I find it worthwhile to be on the front-line, sacrificing my health to shield my teammates. As I take the beating, I get faster, stronger and tougher. And sometimes ā praised be the Master of Mankind ā I reach 6 stacks of Martyrdom and become a whirlwind of blood and gore.
High risk, high reward.
Addendum:
Here is the breakdown of bonuses from my build.
+10% Attack Speed (Faithful Frenzy)
+20% Attack Speed (2x10s) (Fury of the Faithful)
+(6x4=24)% Attack Speed (Martyrdom)
+(6x8=48)% Melee Damage (Martyrdom)
+(6x5=30)% Toughness Damage Reduction (I Shall Not Fall)
+(3x5=15)% Melee Damage (Disdain)
+30% Impact (Hammer of Faith)
+(5x30=150)% Impact (Punishment)
+(5x4=20)% Melee Damage (Sustained Assault)
+5% Melee Damage (Talent Node)
+5% Melee Damage (Talent Node)
+5% Toughness Damage Reduction (Talent Node)
+5% Toughness Damage Reduction (Talent Node)
+36% Melee Damage (Rampage)
Full potential:
+40% Toughness Damage Reduction
+54% Attack Speed
+129% Melee Damage
+180% Impact
That is not to be trifled with.
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