If its going to be viable on console as well for a rework, my suggestion can accomplish that.
WHC is already played very sparingly on console as it is.
The minutia of the game gets complicated when you start balancing reworks, weapons, talents around something that can work for all platforms.
There are already stat/mechanical/connection differences between the platforms.
With the increased hp on console and general changes of the game, very few folks on console really run WHC as a headshot heavy build.
I think what you are suggesting is a PC only thing and porting that change to console wouldn’t make it any more relevant than it is currently, which is not at all
You’re right that it would be very niche, but I think that might be acceptable on a row that contains a general dps talent that works for everyone (Flense). Since WHC already has other talents that very sucessfully fill the role of general dps, Riposte being niche is fair perhaps in the same way Staggering Force is niche on FK compared to Have At Thee and Crowd Clearer (though Riposte would much more niche).
However, Riposte would differ in how it is flashier than other talents, like Rune-Etched Shield or Counter-Punch. Seeing a WHC last second parry an SV and then push to stagger several SV who all look away because of the flinch is very dramatic. I think if players tried it once and did use it for defensive purposes they would eventually find out how effective it could be. It might even make spectating more interesting. In the end most would likely take Deathknell or Flense, but there would be enough taking Riposte for it to even cease being a meme in the eyes of most.
Or at least they’d not see it as a meme when an expert uses it.
Fatshark should balance console differently from pc. It’s unfair that they release the same patches with bugs that have already been fixed on PC and not do any separate balancing for console at all. Unfortunately I think that unless Fatshark does proper balancing for console, that WHC is destined to never be popular on that platform because of the theme of precision.
They do a little bit, but not with talents or weapons.
They just reduce reduce horde size and increase HP across the board, creating a wild kind of balance.
The ( significantly )increased HP on hordes ,10% increase on elites, and the full lack of mod support create significant differences without really even accounting for input device differences.
As it stands, I agree that riposte is not well balanced and neither is his increased ammo talent after the changes to BoP
Now that GK is in the game, it could be something, like a perfectly timed block lets you use a charged attack, while blocking, similar to how the Bret Sword functions which would fall inline with what a Ripose is, although, I can see that being buggy or functioning improperly if not implemented well, it would prolly need some sort of visual indicator that wasn’t just a buff in the corner.
Oh man. If Riposte added block to your heavy charge animation and had a guaranteed crit when hit during the charge up guard frames I would 100% use it all the time. Honestly I’d probably run it a fair bit even if it only did the first half of that description (would probably be too strong with both effects).
I’ve thought of this before as well. It would be very cool, but Fatshark would have to animate blocking animations for all of Saltz’ weapons. I don’t know if it’s reasonable or not for them to do so.
I wouldn’t say this is Riposte’s biggest problem. On hundred and fifty plus ping it’s an issue, but below that it’s reasonable. I’ve found the window to sometimes be too generous as host but reasonable off host. Pushing resets the parry window, and since this would give parry it would be relatively safe to do this on high pings (arguably a balance issue on its own but it does account for higher pings safely).
That is his own choice however. We do have enough Australians in both Official and just enough for Modded down under.
I agree, but there’s not much that can be done without changing the talent’s core theme or Fatshark deciding to change how much the game favours the host. In the end, provided a connection is stable/consistent even at high pings (high for an average player is probably around 200 I think), it should still be skill-based, and there would still be two powerful talents on that row that fulfill the fantasy of a Witch Hunter very well. Is there an alternative path for Riposte that would you like to see?
Obviously the theme of requiring a timed block would have to stay since it is a riposte, after all. However I’d prefer the reward for doing so had some sort of uptime so then you wouldn’t need to be landing constant parries to get full use out of it
Extending the timer to 3 seconds and giving flinching critical pushes until that timer runs out or a critical strike is landed (which uses up the Riposte buff) does help accomplish this to some degree.
I think the most important thing with Riposte would not be getting consistent full usage out of it, but it being there when you needed it most. For the attacks that would otherwise break your guard, or force you to go on the defensive. In many ways this could be seen as a dps uptime talent with a defensive flavour and flashy impact.
A minor buff in addition to the original suggestions could make it more appealing, like after parrying Riposte increases attack speed by 10% for 10 seconds.
Gameplay aside I’m thinking of it in the sense that a riposte occurs due to the fencer gaining priority from a parry. Assuming you don’t lose that priority you’re most certainly not going to stop attacking
in terms of gameplay impact I guess it’d be a matter of an instant gratification in the form of the riposte itself and then some sort of follow-up buff (or perhaps debuff on targets)
most basic solution would be the guaranteed crit and then something like attack speed or power for 3 seconds, something offensive to reward you for elegant defense
After parrying Riposte increases attack speed by 10% for 10 seconds.
Enemies you parry take 10% more damage from all sources of melee damage including other players (like Bulwark) for 3 seconds or increases your melee damage by 10% for 4 seconds.
The next attack a parried enemy lands has no stamina drain on normal block.
I’d personally pick the attack speed. These would be small on their own but hopefully be enough when combined with the suggestion for Riposte in the original post.
True regarding modded content, however I think the point about clutching base cata still stands. Riposte in this suggested state would give WHC a great way to create space against large elite numbers, which usually happens when clutching cata. Generally, without career skill, when faced with a large number of elites, there are three options, high damage and low stagger weapons dodge and attack at openings, while high stagger weapons stagger the enemies trying to whittle them down, and terrain drops.
This Riposte change would make it so that high damage and low stagger weapons have the ability to bypass the waiting for openings. Riposte creates one for you, which can be invaluable when clutching Cata. I don’t have enough experience with stuff like Victor’s greatsword to comment on how high stagger weapons would benefit from this. However, I’m not sure if these are the changes we should be looking for, whereby we take a useless talent and transform it into something with limited effectiveness in general cata play but excelling at a niche aspect.
It’s a fair point, but how can it not be niche while remaining thematically true to a riposte? That’s never going to be a broadly applicable skill. Of course you could rename and rework the talent entirely, but that seems a bit of a shame when what we have fits very well with the class thematically.
Accordingly, it seems to me the only way you can make the talent worthwhile while keeping its core idea intact is to make it proportionally strong to how niche it is. I’d say Velsix’ core idea achieves that without making it overpowered. Especially when you consider that picking it means losing out on Flense or Deathknell, which are consistently strong whatever situation you find yourself in. I am curious if it would have much value on weapons like greatsword, but then again, not every talent has to benefit every weapon equally.