Weapons need some tweaks

lets see our good old kruber’s repeater handgun:

34 base damage + 21.75 armour damage per shot.

kerillian’s longbow:

22.75 base damage + 5.75 armour damage for quick shot,
28.25 base damage + 17.0 armour damage for charged shot.

guess instant gunfire is stronger than fully charged shot?

hagbane:
5.75 base damage + 1.25 (armour damage - charged shot only) with small ammo, more like a joke ayy?.

tl;dr:
list of underpowered.

elf dual dagger (low stamina and block angle, which isnt good after all), axe (the only axe without any crit bonus), longbow and hagbane,
victor repeater and flail,
kruber blunderbuss,
sienna beam, conflag (too much heat), bolt (slow velocity / charge time).
moreover, heat slow down sienna’s melee whilst bardin’s heat weapons are not

list of overpowered.

kruber repeater,
victor brace, axe &falchion

There’s more to think about than just damage numbers. Headshot/crit bonuses, accuracy, rate of fire, reloads, career and talent interactions are just a few of the other things to look at when thinking about weapon balance. For example, hagbane might have lower damage per shot on single targets, but it has an aoe effect that lets it hit lots of things at once.

Is this bait? This smells like bait.

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I already find ranged to be overly powerful and actually like that Conflag and Beam have more noticeable limitations.
Also, Hagbane is a monster if speced for it. Barrage lets it eat away at monsters like they’re infantry.

dagger has 2 shields only and smallest block angle ingame. yes you can strike both blades on charged, but except for that its very bad. thats the reason why people go for sword and dagger much often for shade.
dagger has only a usage - elites. her axe has same speed / damage for other axes but no crit bonus. such mis-stepped soul are you.

lol, prolly in the top 5 best weapon combos in the game, what??

also who doesn’t run 2 stam 20% hp on neck, so its 3 shields assuming you don’t run 2+ stam on the daggers themselves, or just run parry…

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Well, I’m gonna disagree with you there. I had a whole big slab of text typed out, but it was a bit much really.

I get the feeling that you feel like they’re a bit too fragile, is that right?

Mate, you’re not thinking of the big picture. Kerillian has a 50% bonus for head shot damage which syncs really well with the longbow on WS. Very easy to build for break points. HM has 15% power with a talent as well.

You must be joking about hagbane. That thing is a god damn monster.

Dual daggers did get nerfed pretty hard. But they’re still viable. They can bang out damage very well, and on the “DaggerMaiden”, they really shine.

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nor i

offense isnt really great so it can override the its lack.

not every elf variant have that talent. hagbane has its own usage, i get that. but the ammo is too small you barely control the horde for few times meanwhile it requires barrage to maximize its power. thus should have better damage or more ammo.

lets go over your underpowered things:
elf:
dual daggers were totally overpowered before the nerf, now they are simply a good elf weapon (which means still very good just not over the top anymore)

hagbane, no comment there :smiley: (its the only bow i use and its amazing)
longbow well similar to boltstaff requires being good at headshots (im not) so i dont use it much

axe cant comment on it, havent played enough withit

salz:
repeater i have to say i find them pretty meh, but that might be from lack of actually trying them, but when i used them they felt pretty trash

flail, (i assume on zealot) is a totally viable option and works really well

kruber:
sry but the blunderbuss is one of the best range weapons in the good soldiers arsenal
you can run hole maps without ever needing any ammo, you can 1 tap maulers and zerks, monks
pretty much any special apart from packmasters
and a special bonus, if a teammate is brave enough to jump infront of you, you can take away like half there HP and smile about it

sienna:
beam well cant really say much about it, i havent used it in a long time, but only cuz i like other staffs more
conflag is totally fine, the to much heat part can either be used as a bonus to apply the benefits high overcharded yield on pyro and unchained, or can be counterd by microventing
bolt well i suck at headshots so i dont use that very often :wink:

regards towly

(all typos that you find can be kept i dont want them )

3 Likes

This.

Only thing I agree with (sorta) is elf longbow. There isn’t much you can do with it because the headshot bonus is huge, but bodyshot damage doesn’t allow for hitting many relevant breakpoints.

Repeater has a very limited usage as in only with BH with Hunter trait (as it applies the 25% to the target it triggers on, don’t ask me why), 40% crit power on weapon and charm as well as + 25% from talent and 10% power vs chaos and obviously the not using ammo talent for blessed shot (there are other ways for the breakpoint, thats the one im using) for one-shoting chaos warriors. I wouldn’t even dare to use it in another way or on anther carrier. It’s quite good against specials on higher distances too when you choose the 25% better aim talent (which you really should). You also need to be in close range to the CW to one shot him, damage drop off is significant, as it is a close range weapon. Also, the damage of all 8 pellets is exactly the needed 120 dmg to CW (with that setup), so one enemy in the way will ruin the shot. So again, very niche. But i don’t play BH in another way, It’s really fun.

Sure repeater and braces might be overturned right now but hagbane most definitely aint far behind currently.
Not to mention if you are going to do comparisons then at least include all the factors since nothing rivals hagbane in horde control and overall utility.

That’s how hunter works, or any “on crit” talent that alters damage for that matter. The hunter procs before damage is calculated and it is a good thing it does since otherwise, it would be completely outclassed by the already strong (and in most cases: preferable) barrage. Stacking crit power is not at all necessary, as stacking chaos and armour damage on both weapon and charm yields the same result (though you could argue that the crit power applies to all targets, but a full crit-volley from repeater demolishes anything, anyhow).

I find them to be in a very good spot now, they are now very valid alternatives to crossbow, which is versatily, accurate, has low damage fall-off, high ammo capacity, good penetration, satisfactory boss damage and rate of fire and works very well with both scrounger and hunter on BH setups as well as getting a crit-shot bonus with charged shots - and to top it of, it works equally well with WHC and Zealot. One-shotting SV with WHC’s tagging damage bonus is trivial (one skaven and armour stack on xbow is enough and with chaos and armour on charm, dealing 50% more damage against CW makes them rather easy pickings for headshots). Same applies even more so to Zealot, as his damage buff currently also applies to ranged damage, so taking the same xbow and having 4 stacks running, you can one shot SV with bodyshots (which is the most important break point to hit with xbow imho). Only thing I might argue is that the boss damage on BoP is now a little over the top, but repeater is in a very good spot now. Both weapons make volley xbow a little obsolete atm (which it was before imho) and that one could use some tweaking. But otherwise, I think Salty’s ranged arsenal is pretty well balanced.

i agree dagger is a good weapon, but id rather go for glaive or so.
for fail, i cant really recommand it. tried on bounty hunter for a while so i can surely say it has lack of defense.
maybe on zealt - i get that.
blunderbuss is good if youve lack of aim but id rather pick other - beacause of fall-off, it limited own usage. a gunfire for close range only ?.
conflag is a decent but could be a bit better i guess.
and like i mentioned before, hagbane is good with barrage spam shot is working indeed, but cant really keep the phase.
which being said why hagbane? you can either use melee instead - can block / push enemies and no reload nor ammo. it forces to spam otherwise the damage isnt great at all. thus it need more ammo or damage.

I Would say The Flail needs faster attack speed

ok i could have gone into more detail why i consider hagbane to be so strong
but lets first touch the spam and less ammo portion

the thing is you dont need to constantly spam it thats why its ammo is pretty fine as it is
considering the woodelf basiclly has unlimited ammo on any bow she uses unless you literally do nothing but fire it constantly for a long time
on shade you can gain ammo back from backstabbing, which atleast gives me consitend ammo returns
that that leaves misses iaminsaneinmelee aka handmaiden, and she really doesnt need anymore to be powerful she allready is

lets touch some of the benefits of it that make me really like it:

the hagbane barrage has the best synergy with the elfs melee
its amazing to save downed allies as it creates a little bumble of death around them that gives you time to go and get them uo
its nice if i land a headshot but it doesnt hurt me if i dont

short sidenote on blunderbuss : (i speak mostly for merc, as it is the kruber i like the most)
yes it limits his rangeengaement to a be close to semi midrange only which is totally fine as that what you need 99% of the time anyway
the one special that likes to do things from faraway the blightstormer will be picked up by the other members of your party or you simply ignore him cuz well he casts a green circle that can be seen so it can be avoided

and keep in mind i am not suggesting other options arent as or more powerful
you simply stated that this options were underpowerd and im saying there not :slight_smile:

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For context: Played for a bit over 400 hours with all classes over level 30 and a decent amount of experience with the vast majority of them. I agree maybe a little with the Repeater Pistol. Everything else not even close.

I’m not gonna go through every single one but I have to ask how much you’ve actually used these weapons on Legend?

This one really sticks out to me: Hagbane - probably the most used ranged Kerillian weapon on Legend. Most consider it her best ranged weapon. The poison ticks and AOE make it destroy hordes and bosses alike VERY effectively.

When I have more time I can explain them one by one if anyone actually cares.

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i dont think shade is built for crowed control via bolt return with hagbane.
and i dare say swift bow is better overall, 5% bolt return on crit does fit well for waywatcher.
16 ammo vs 49. ive no idea why people perfer hag over the swift,
but if you desire so.

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