I’ve had entire hordes, or in maelstrom even a double boss fight during a horde, without a single marked enemy for 40+ seconds. There might have even been the odd bruiser or shooter, but then you have to rely on your teammates not accidentally offing them, and the AI not taking a break because of the amount of enemies around, leaving your marked target idle behind a wall.
I’d rework both of those keystones to have gradual falloff with different qualifiers. Granted, I will never have the opportunity to do so, but I will declare my conviction nonetheless.
I suppose for the veteran getting a sabre we could move over to this thread.
I disagree with the notion that giving everyone every weapon is not a potential balancing issue. I know it’s not unheard of, because I’ve seen one, but I don’t know why a psyker would ever wield a mk3 knife when they have the dueling swords instead. Granted, this is alleviated somewhat by the knives having blessings that synergize with bleed - which the psyker has no source of - and both Veteran and Zealot having Talents that grant bleed stacks and/or also benefit off them.
I also like having some differentiation between classes through available weapons.
However, there is also the opportunity to differentiate the same weapons between different classes.
After all, Psykers can get force push on Las Pistols.
If you are a pure staff like I used to do in VT2 on Sienna, and the melee weapon is purely a repositioning tool then more speed is more speed however little it may offer.
In regards to the balance of the weapon on vet or zealot I think the main issue would be the MK IV’s heavy attack which is incredibly powerful with a lot of range would certainly reach into gamebreaking territory.
I think the other thread covers that though. Specialized slower movesets maybe no long range stab attacks, or toned down ones.
That’s why I suggested a new variant of a Flamer with significantly higher range at the cost of spread or something, and it’s gotta have a half-decent ammo stockpile, so that my Survivalist can fix it up for me
I’m still not completely sold on Veteran Flamers, but the above variant would diversify Vet builds a tad more.
The current Flamer would be USELESS for Vets and would consume WAY too much ammo, I completely agree on that.
Enough with the big stick weapons. Give zealots dual powerswords/chainaxes! Let us spill the blood for the Emperor and collect skulls for the Golden Throne!
Zealot get every 2h weapon would be kinda boring though ngl.
Also I find it weird that you didn’t like the idea of knife being able to kill Ogryn and Monstrosity but is fine with having Duelling Sword on all human class when it’s pretty much better than knife all round except maybe mobility and bleed build.
I didn’t necessarily rule out a 2 handed force sword for Psyker. But 2h melee for vet would be out of line with the classes he has right now. Maybe if they gave him a new one. Also 2H weapons for ogryn make perfect sense. Vet should be getting more ranged options including exclusive ones ideally.
Balance being what it is isn’t relevant to the discussion on what weapons belong to which classes. Dueling swords can always be rebalanced. But they should be on other classes than psyker. Veteran and Zealot both have classes that, aesthetically, should have these weapons.
Balance and gameplay is the only relevant metric. If a weapon would be too strong on a class that doesn’t have it because of the peculiarities of that class, then the class would have to be changed, not the weapon.
Or we get a different weapon that looks the part, at which point we’ve arrived at “Veteran and Zealot should also have weapons that look like dueling swords”. Which is a different topic, but one I do not disagree with, because why not.
Or, you could say “they should have a weapon that fills the same role as a dueling sword”, which is also fine, as that at least allows to argue for the why. Mixing the two means the split between those in favour of the OP and those against does not line up with the actual opinions of people on one or the other as the question is interpreted differently.
I assume you meant one of the latter, but I’m not sure about that.
That said, I think classes should have more baseline differences, not less, and if one of those is the weapon selection, then so be it.
Vermintide also mostly had different weapons per character, and that worked out.
I can admittedly see the appeal of sharing assets, with how fatsharks seem to be unable to even apply the proper skins to different weapons in a family.
I think that weapons that are mundane should be shared between classes except where some obvious specialization is apparent. Like the lucius las gun is honestly not really a specialist weapon but there’s sense in it (and the accatran IMO) being limited to just the Veteran. But a saber or dueling sword makes sense thematically and technically for both veteran and zealot.
I’m not really of the opinion that the dueling sword would be especially OP on either and I am of the opinion that the duelling sword is too strong against CRUSHERS in particular. But so is the knife, and I don’t consider it OP either just unpleasantly positioned as a weapon that can onetap certain big targets or do enormous damage in ways that don’t make sense in the lore. Both weapons are primarily single target with limited cleave. So they have mitigating factors to their power at least.
I don’t think there’s any particular mundane weapon that would be too strong on any other class and really only the power sword strikes me as OP in the games design currently. Most other melee weapons have a niche or place that makes sense and cross polination of them would work fine. Like the heavysword belongs on vet, probably more than on Zealot. Its literally a weapon of the Voystroyan regiments.
This is actually supported in game currently, they just don’t hit the flag for whatever reason. This was my initial reason for wanting the weapon customization mod. Even more maddening the new shovels actually had a consideration for how they would work when not using skins that fold - you flip the shovel and strike with the serrated side. But you have to use the mod to brute-force equip them, even though they work.
