Thats what i said. Largely due to all the rending associated rending mechanics. For example: the veteran can get almost the same light attack breakpoints on a chain axe as a 5 stack martyrdom zealot. On a swing for swing basis the veteran has the edge but zealot swings faster in most cases and has great survivability uptime in a melee fight.
Besides the fact that mindless crit CDR is a disaster of a mechanic. Yes, you can do this and it can do some impressive things but FotF spam can actually slow down your horde clear on some weapons. So its not always the best.
The Veteran needs the 2-handed Power Sword more than the Zealots. Iām sick of their only unique options being ācrowd control meleeā (Power Sword and Shovel) and āsniper rangedā (Helbore and Plasma)
Literally zealotās class specific lock is ā2 handed melee weaponsā.
Furthermore nowhere in 40k lore or tabletop am i aware of veterans using two handed melee weapons. They are a regular fighting force that primarily uses ranged weapons, bayonets, and melee as sidearms. This means melee weapons are typically one handed and where issued specifically are usually used by leaders like sergeants, lieutenants and comissars. What the veteran should have is the ability to dual wield. But a 2h powersword belongs to the zealot (crusader and assassin). Veteran should get a power fist and power saber however.
I want a Veteran Sabre, but the 2-handed Power Sword would cement the āTemplarā nature that Zealots consider the Veterans to have. Besides, Rinda Karnak wields a HUGE Power Sword that would normally be used with 2 hands and sheās Traitoris Militarum. I understand your point, but giving Zealots everything in the 2-handed category and leaving the Veteran with nothing is justā¦ Letās just say itās neither cash nor money. Ogryns need 2-handed weapons, too! Iād also love a 2-handed Force Sword for Psyker.
If Zealot needs anything new thatās unique, they need more ranged options than just a Flamer - giving them even more melee tools for the time being is just making them too OP.
What they need to make are Officer Swords. High cleave like catachan swords, great finesse like duelling swords and have the special be you firing a friggin bolt pistol. Where is this weapon Fat Shark.
Thatās what I mean by a Ceremonial Sabre! I agree that itād be SUCH a good weapon to use. Heck, if I get one Iāll probably stop asking for a 2-handed Power Sword.
Itās only a probably, though. Depends on whether the Sabre ends up being well-balanced and fun.
Honestly, I donāt even need a Bolt Pistol special for it to be fun, Iād gladly take a Bolt Pistol as my ranged weapon if itās got a reasonably quick swapping time (unlike the Helbore)
I propose that one of these Flamers should act more like a WW2-era Flamethrower, where it has HUGE range at the cost of the overall spread. Iām not sure about the functions of another new variant, but Iām open to ideas!
Guess weāre going in circles then, and we mostly agree; just
a difference in how weāre phrasing things.
But I mentioned that he hits harder on a swing by swing basis literally to reiterate what you weāre saying, and then adding on to it because I feel like you left out how huge the gap is in the raw DPS boosts that Zealot gets.
I probably felt that you weāre trying to misframe how small the gap was, and I misread intent.
Glass, yes. Cannon? Not so much. Their DPS (not just boss DPS) is insanely lower than the other classes. A Psyker can most certainly lock down groups of elites with Trauma or the mindless Smite, but thatās mostly about saving bad teams / recovering bad situations. Other classes, which are also way tankier have a helluva lot more cannon, and will simply delete said groups of elites.
And speaking of stagger, Zealot now has the best stagger in the whole game (if they build for it), and you can even stack it with toughness overshield. Hell, Veteran can shout harder than Psykers by a mile now, and wow, look at that, toughness overshield. And they can even yell people off the ground.
Whatever niche Psyker was supposed to have is long gone, both through nerfs and through the buffs and changes to other classes.
I think assail gunpsyker with telekine shield has a strangely useful niche that takes care of shooter packs/hordes way better than any other class can other than maybe a dagger zealot. I cannot understate how insane shield can be if people just use it. The fact it blocks fire of all types including bombs is crazy to me.
Blocks nets as well as an added bonus, but I donāt trust it enough to not dodge anyways.
Otherwise from my testing on the class lately I find staff (any staff) to be kind of underpowered outside of niche situations like melee maelstrom where you have so many elites you can get insane soulblaze stacks on the entire map.
I honestly just think some survivability buffs (like 30-40 more base toughness), and making venting shriek have a slightly larger pushback with a toughness recovery added to it would probably put them in a much better place.
Iād much rather they put some cannon in, than give it better tanking. Then again, other classes both tank better and have much higher DPS, so I guess thereās an argument to be made that it should get both.
You can make your arguments about other classes CC, but psyker still has the best utility in the game when it comes right down to brass tacks.
Smite bot is also good as you mentioned especially paired up with dome. You can baby sit your entire team, and lock down entire mixed hordes on your own.
Giving them more damage as well would be potentially problematic.
Gunpsyker is also no slouch in DPS even if it is because of just very specific interactions with a MK III HH, or MK V Columnus.
You pair those up with scriers gaze and the 100% crit chance you get on guns, and they absolutely shred same with Psykerās melee weapons with the finesse buff they get from gaze.
I think purely focusing on them getting more survivability alone will allow them to be more aggressive, and see where they go from there, and whether they actually still need damage afterwards.
I do want to be able to hold Smite for more than 2 seconds before my Peril goes to 100%, though. I feel like thatās notā¦ normal. Is this just me or is that happening with everyone?
I think it will be OP on zealot and vet, cause dueling sword has both mobility and range. And range is the key thing here. In case with more tough classes range is what brings balance via risk when you have mobile weapon.
Well itās the price for smite canāt blow you. Imo smite needs rework, too simplistic to use, no learning curve.
Scriers is a no go for the actual Psyker fantasy - using staffs. Itās a super niche keystone. Empowered is not only niche, but also incredibly lackluster, asking you to invest in making mediocre blitzes slightly less mediocre. Warp Charges has been completely ruined and destroyed by built-in quickening. Now itās only good for meme builds that only take the first talent, in order to spam Dome.
If you build deeper into Warp Charges, you can never, ever press F. At all. Itās such idiotic design itās not even funny.
Psyker keystones manages to be both incredibly bad and also boring. Because the tree has been made incredibly restrictive, thereās no gold to be mined by building keystone-less, either. The whole Psyker talent tree is actually a godawful mess, but Psykers are so used to crap things that not many are mentioning it
Youāre right about utility though, and Psyker is arguably (with the right staff and build) the best thing to bring if you want to carry/save bad teams in public matchmaking.
The problem is that if the team is competent, the Psyker is kind ofā¦ just there? Doing bad DPS (at comparative skill levels), unable to instantly delete threats like everyone else can, while also being glass.
Also, Iād rather Smite be nuked from the game, than have it be the reason to limit damage output. That one of the blitzes is a mindless stagger-bot is no reason to make the whole class terrible - and if it is the reason to make the whole class terrible, then just remove it. The game doesnāt need mindless skill-free stagger-spam.
Not sure about the staff portion. Best psyker I played with was using a revolver, smite, and bubble build.
He kept us all extremely safe, and there were 2 people who were very clearly not ready for Aurics let alone the Maelstrom mission we weāre running.
At one point a demonhost jumped on me for literally no reason (I have footage of this, and I was nowhere remotely near the damn thing), and the dude held off the specials while the 3 of us eventually killed the DH.
He did not use the revolver much, but when he did it was always at crucial moments.
Yeah that is dumb. Pretty classic FS though. At least a soul blaze build gets your charges back pretty quick.
They should probably make Empyrean empowerment, and warp battery the baseline instead of the CDR thing, and put the CDR at the end of the modifier nodes so you can actually hit F without burning charges.
Again though staff builds only truly feel good in Auric Melee Maelstrom, but hoo boy do they rock that modifier.
Maybe its because Iām a vet main, but I like DD. Itās better than MF by my estimation at least because I can move around and always keep max stacks. Granted only reason I get value, or am able to stack it easily at all is because I donāt use a staff, and assail is dumb.
It is pretty mindless. Kind of like assail is as well.
Trauma staff also has insane stagger, but that one requires skill to not jettison melee mobs behind your teammates though Iāve had plenty of practice since I was a Sienna main in VT2.
I think voidstrike staff got over nerfed. I think thatās the quintessential DPS staff, or should be anyways. It can headshot, itās a relatively slow projectile at least within the context of darktide, and itās not exactly a super fast charge but atm I feel like surge is almost on par with it despite the fact that surge takes no aim, and also has CC.
So to reiterate: give psykers 30 to 40 more base toughness, and bring back voidstrike staff a bit. That would be a good start if not an outright solution.
Probably donāt have to touch smite if thatās all they do.
Both of those keystones have a problem with feel, and which you consider worse depends on taste.
MF feels bad for losing stacks when moving, and having poor synergy with slow precision weapons - itās great with autoguns, though.
DD feels bad during hordes and bossfights with few adds, and is generally inconsistent.
Both are unquestionably powerful, though.
All Psyker Keystones are potentially quite powerful, but they all have caveats. I frequently use empored psionics not because itās good (it is, but its main effect is polishing turds), but because it is the one keystone that neither afflicts me with constant time pressure, nor prevents me from using my active.
ā¦ weāre not really talking about dueling swords anymore, are we?
God. I want MK VII HH to be THE sharpshooter weapon, but it just isnāt. Awful breakpoints even if you have max stacks.
They really need to just make it so that it has different values of Finesse based on firing rate, or simply make it so that if you miss a shot you lose stacks (this would be the only way to lose stacks) while making the finesse modifier it gives be 125+ at 10 instead of the measly 75 which does jack for anything other than autoguns.
They really donāt do breakpoint testing, or even consider them at all. I know its harped on a lot, but the devs definitely donāt play their own game.
Idk. You just need anything above a dreg, or pox walker and those get highlighted.
