We need to have a serious discussion about balance

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide Gameplay Feedback
21

they don´t need to cater explicitly, simply not applying chances to those difficulties in terms it waters down the experience.

like reduce 20% of weapon dmg/stats when joining auric maelstrom tier 6 or something.

buff up until damnation (not auric mind you) to your hearts and power fantasies content, but leave the peak alone for those willing to climb.

i know it aint that simple like in my example but something is feasible given appropriate effort.

does it ? numbers right now suggesting not many casuals sticking to the game in order to buy a wardrobe full of cossplay cosmetics.

personally i think i put 3 or 4 copies of the game worth of cosmetics in my ogryn. added the premium edition a bit after the regular just as a “thank you” for the experience.

again,

should find one at least if they choose so, is all i´m saying.

2 Likes
22

I think the biggest problem is difficulty being inconsistent. Some levels are just on principle way harder than others, and the spawns are very much rng. So one round can be soul crushing hard and the next one a total breeze.
The other big issue is matchmaking, they should adapt the system from vermintide 2, what op called class lock, I think?

Dueling sword should be removed for zealot and vet, but I think vet is far from op. They made him a glass cannon really.

Also high intensity shock troop gauntlet on damnation imo shows very quickly what the pros and cons of plasma gun and revolver are. Oh, you deleted those 8 crushers? That’s cute, here’s a never ending tide of ragers and maulers paired with snipers from all sides and a shitload of gunners. Reloading plasma takes forever and once you have to reload you are completely screwed. Revolver is great for picking out individual enemies far and wide, but again very slow to reload and once the tide hits borderline useless.

Overall, weapons and classes can feel way to powerful one round and totally not the next one. But I think the main issue lies with rng and no class lock, not individual weapons (except dueling sword which is plain broken).

23

Not sure if this warrants a new difficulty itself, or perhaps just an adjustment to Auric and re-communicating the intent …

But I think the core problem stems from most enemies on the highest difficulty just not having enough HP. Put your breakpoint calculators down for a moment. Unless horde and mod densities go up (which I think creates more hardware issues), the only approach is making enemies tougher.

Right now, the fundamental problem is that it’s just too easy to cleave your way through all manner of trash, normal, and elite enemies. It’s fun, don’t get me wrong. But like - how often does anyone every need to actually BLOCK melee attacks? You don’t because by the time you’re in melee range everything on your screen is getting cleaved and staggered out of their attack animations except maybe for ragers. Blessings having to do with crowd control, stagger/impact, etc. are underpowered because everything is dead before those blessings would matter.

The brief window were ranged enemies were buffered was amazing because ranged enemies at a distance were a big threat and you couldn’t just power slide your way across half the map in the open to engage them. You had to chip them down with ranged cover. It was interesting. I understand why it was reverted on lower difficulties, but on Auric? Bring it on.

If enemies were tougher and ranged enemies deadlier, I think a lot of other builds and weapons that don’t prioritize damage above all else would actually have some use, either on the melee end for managing crowds or on the ranged end for better managing shooters.

As for the difficulty level - make Auric more difficult. If most of the casual base is playing Malice and Heresy, applying these changes to Auric won’t affect them eitherway. I ALSO think many of the Maestrrom mission modifiers could be used as single or double modifiers in non-maelstrom auric missions too, as a way to tweak the difficulty up a bit and add to the diversity of the experience for auric play.

7 Likes
24

Mobility is definitely too high I think. Zealot or anyone with a knife can run away from horde without risk of getting hit and close the distance to shooters before they can shoot really.

The reason this feels different than vermintide is because enemies track worse when you dodge, and even when you get hit by a stray attack, you get toughness back very easily compared to temp health. You also can interrupt more enemy types with a push, like you can interrupt a mauler overhead with a push which has 360 degree effectiveness, so the only time you block is while you create distance from ragers.

4 Likes
25

Preach!

2 Likes
26

The shooter buff patch upset the balance of the game in the best way possible. Very unfortunate they reversed it.

4 Likes
27

80% of the people with whom I play Quickplay Damnation since the update would like a word with you lol
The average guy isn’t as good as you think they are

4 Likes
28

Farshark, listen to this post, nerf player’s favorite weapons and have only these guys playing your game left.

Majority on forums, less than 1 percent in real numbers.

We have unforgivingly high amount of weapons that are just redicilously weak, and you guys want to nerf revolver.
Which one? There are two. Second one is such legendary garbage and nobody talk about it.

Nerf, nerf, nerf!

29

Your argument is moot.

5 Likes
30

As a Veteran Anti-Ranged Build Player.
you got a solid idea that enemy shooters are too easy to counter right now.

yet the issue is not the nerf, the revert of the buff was good to ranged builds.
image
For Authenticity purposes, the update was done on 3/July, and the Video was posted on 4/July.

You can notice that even after the “nerf to shooters” you can still get your whole toughness gone in 1 burst, pretty much to this day its an issue, because the bug was not fixed from June/25 Patch Ironwill Bug.

First issue with ranged that their AI still favors melee combat , and the melee AI is too bad.

Walking in reverse and yet he cant reach me, and never changed to ranged weapon again.

In short, its like playing Total War Warhammer/Empire , and throwing your musket infantry in melee rather than letting them shot.

Second issue is how cover is not really working, either full cover and peak side ways or dont use cover, sliding & dashing is the best cover to ranged, I can dash/slide to ranged with the heavy power sword than actually shot them.

Third issue is Scavenger Ammo, clearing ranged requires 1-2 magazines of (Infantry Autogun Agripinna or Graia) for each room with “Ranged Section Sized Unit of Scab or Dreg”, now I just favor melee, after the nerf, i noticed i had 40% more ranged damage to 1. Ranged Lesser 2. Range elite 3. Ranged Disabler, than now. (through ScoreBoard Mod)

Sadly… it wont stagger a bulwark shields up.

2 Likes
31

feels like a personal attack for me, I do this all the times, just imagining they have a bayonet, of course I do so when I know for sure that unit is doomed

1 Like
32

Class locks, great idea. When matchmaking, connection speed/proximity should be priority, followed by classes. Reducing teams composed of the same classes will help players take advantage of each classes unique abilities/traits.

Now I’m sure this will be unpopular, but every class should be able to tackle every kind of threat. This is an essential element in a game that depends on putting four completely different players that have never fought together into the same lobby. While each class has unique abilities and traits, classes should not have their inventories pidgeonholed to fit one specific combat role.

Classes that are too specific often suffer greatly in practice. What may look great on paper at tackling a specific threat often falls short because it does not account for the random chaos of Darktide.

Take for example the fan favorite Crusher ambush. Crushers are often quiet compared to the background noise of combat/music and blend in very well to the often dark corridors of Darktide.

In a split second, disablers blitz out of nowhere and remove the vet. While the vet is netted, the crushers stride forward and ensure he can’t be freed.

Now, if this were a game where classes were pidgeonholed by talents and inventory to the extent OP wishes, the team would more than likely be royally f***ed to put it lightly.

Without the Vet’s Brittleness debuffs, Krak nades, shout and Plasma gun the team would be at a significant disadvantage. Remember, in this scenario classes are locked at matchmaking so there’s only one Vet. Now, this is an extreme example but the reality is when there’s limited communication and organization in a game as hectic as Darktide it becomes very necessary to round out classes a bit.

That being said, OP is right about Dueling Sword on Zealot. Some weapons (emphasis on some!) should be class specific. Psyker’s unique class traits - high crit, low toughness - fit Dueling sword perfectly as they allow a Psyker to maximize their crit potential while using the Dueling Sword’s high mobility benefits to avoid taking too much damage to their already limited toughness pool.

However, when given to zealot - a class unique with the highest base mobility and the most melee focused damage talents in the game it becomes absolutely broken. It becomes a matter of needing a nerf, but reducing mobility bonuses or crit bonuses will definitely make the sword a significantly less valuable option for Psyker. While removing Thrust and Rending could also be an option, the most logical is to just keep DS as a Psyker specific weapon.

2 Likes
33

Sorry about that :sweat_smile: :smiley:

This was my average army reinforcement in Warhammer 2, 20-40 ironsides, just to… FIX BAYONENTS! when the time calls.

2 Likes
34

Then what is the point of nerfs?
Would you like to kill gunners with two revolver’s headshots instead of one? And take down 2 of them from the mag instead of 5?

35

We need a new difficulty at this point

1 Like
36

As I’ve detailed above, that’s how it always goes. A new difficulty is always just “more”, the game becomes ever more tedious.
Then they’ll eventually buff “underperforming weapons”, and then we’ll need a new difficulty again before too long.

I sure hope they don’t balance by this, though.
I don’t even play high int if I can help it. I want difficulty to have a cadence, to have high and low points, and a variety of challenges presented in succession.
I don’t want the difficulty to be about keeping up my focus in the face of a never ending stream of tedium.

Anyone remember VT2 before the dodge timing changes they made in benefit of people with bad connections? When you had to dodge an overhead sideways and a horizontal swipe backwards? That gave big groups of enemies a natural difficulty. After that change hit, I solo’d a chaos patrol, laughing in disbelief at how none of them could hit me by virtue of me just dodging. If every enemy can be interrupted, and every attack can be dodged, all non-special enemies become just bodymass.

But it is what it is.
As for more promising options:
I wish there were way more modifiers to put on maps. Modifiers are something that can easily be gated by difficulty, and it’d also give some variety to play.
Stronger specials or Elites. Armoured hordes. Stronger patrols, maybe with officers that buff nearby enemies, so people can stop gushing about breakpoints and focus on the playing.
Hell, most maps are cut into sections, we could have some modifiers switch for a change.
First section is high int with stronger hordes, next part is lights out with stronger patrols and DH.

Also, why not have player mutators? You got caught with your pants down and now have to fight the level without most of your gear. Everytime you look at your squad mates, you take emotional damage and increase your corruption and peril, even as a non-psyker. :stuck_out_tongue:
Sorry, had to end on a lighter node.

1 Like
37

unskilled players don’t know the proper way to use the right weapons. they hardly think about build combinations, and their dodging and blocking techniques are inefficient. when just a single crusher approaches them, they immediately throw a krak grenade or activate voice of the emperor to crush it with a power sword. this doesn’t require any skill—it’s just pressing buttons.

most players lack skill, so they love weapons that don’t need it. at higher difficulties, they only use op weapons like plasma, bolter, revolver, and power sword (and now duelling sword after the update), which proves the point.

instead of complaining about nerfs, unskilled players should take the time to learn the game. take the headhunter autogun, for example. hardly anyone uses it at high difficulty, but if used correctly, it’s incredibly powerful. for instance, by using dance of death and duelist on a zealot, and pairing it with the headhunter(mk3) and deadly accurate blessings, you can take down a crusher in 5–6 taps.

there are builds that can bring out the potential of most weapons, yet few players understand them. of course, some weapons still underperform even then.

first, the op weapons need to be brought down to a proper balance, and the underperforming weapons need buffs. otherwise, difficulty balance will collapse, and the game will turn into a mere walking simulator, losing its challenge and becoming boring.

1 Like
38

Haven’t you seen the developer stream? They don’t need to nerf anything to change the meta and they will not because that’s what all the vets glued to plasma gun fear the most and that’s the target audience now.

Power creep is like climate change: you might prefer to ignore it in favour of short-term fun, but in the long run it will kill you so ruthlessly you will regret ignoring it back when you could have still stopped it.
Sadly, the devs seem all to happy to drive their fossil-powered car of ‘fun’ power creep.

5 Likes
39

Please abstain from voicing poorly informed opinions on matters you’re not well-versed in. Nobody said anything about nerfing revolver so that it doesn’t one-headshot Gunners so you’re just making a strawman here.

Ergo, stop trolling.

2 Likes
40

Part of the problem with ranged enemies is that slide doesn’t consume any resource. Either it should keep stamina depleting or have a dodge limit equivalent, or maybe cooldown.

When counterplay is just spam one button without decision making it always will be bad. No place for mistake - no punish - no risk - no adrenaline and feeling of achievement.

1 Like