Waystalker ult vs Pyromancer ult question

I just wanted to ask a question to everyone on this forum, this is not a thread asking for a nerf or anything, just wanna know the opinions some players have regarding this.

ok here it goes: ‘Why can waystalker’s ult kill 3 or even 4 (with the talent) sv with a single ult, while pyro’s ult caps at 1 sv?’

Some of my thoughts:

  • Waystalker has the same basic cooldown as pyro has.
  • Waystalker has cooldown reduction talents, which make it less cooldown than pyro.
  • Pyro has temp hp on ult, and ws doesnt. But ws doesnt need to vent so idk
  • i understand that it probably caps at 1 sv per projectile, so ws has 3 projectiles = kills 3 sv; pyro has 1 projectile = kills 1 sv.

I think killing 1 sv with your ult is good, being able to kill multiple seems very strong especially with all the cooldown reduction she can get.


Because wutelgi must be more powerfull than any other :stuck_out_tongue:

Pyro ult is hot garbage right now, because:
its slow
can’t hit intended target,
you can’t block when casting your ult and its freaking long animation (3 times worse than bardin smokebomb)
have way lower cleave comparing to 3 arrows of ws
And for funsies its have even lower damage than 3 arrows of ws ult :smiley:


I wanna point out that Pyro’s ult hits much harder than Waystalker’s. You might not notice it vs stormvermin, but for instance a Pyro ult will one-shot a chaos warrior on legend (and Cata too, I think?) if it’s a headshot. While Waystalker’s won’t, pretty sure.
Also comes into play during boss fights, Pyro’s ult will deal considerably more damage than Waystalker’s.

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Seeing how both careers can target specific enemies with their ult it’s basically the same in this regard. I’m pretty sure neither WS three arrow ult nor Pyro head can one shot a CW in cata if all projectiles hit the head unbuffed.

In answer to Mattie’s question I think that way stalkers ult has more of an ‘oh shyte’ and clearing potential for elites and specials while pyro has less of most things but extra horse clear. With that said I enjoy pyro ult way more and even though it could be buffed to either cleave one armored or cleave more unarmoured, I don’t think it should. It would become way too powerful.

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WS ult is armor piercing, and Pyro isn’t, that’s why it stops at the first armored target, be it ANY armored unit or a armored Mauler head.

What grinds my gears is that WS ult has MUCH superior pathing than Pyro, where the bounce of the Pyro ult is a completely useless “feature” and it’s actually more detrimental to it’s operation.
In the end the Pyro ult, while looks much more awesome it’s not something you can rely on.

I guess it’s because Pyro can have more AoE ranged damage in general, and you can take the chance not to use the Ult, which I’ve had proc 10+ times at high Overcharge. Works really well with her flamethrower.

Pyro’s Talents surrounding the Ultimate are really good though.

Hopefully they’ll get around to making the last two lines of WS’s tree worth using, other than Cooldown + Ammo Talents.

Lorewise, the Burning Head should’ve left scores of enemies dead and burning in its unyielding wake, but given how weak Sienna is (compared to other bright wizards), all I can do is shrug.

I play a lot as Pyro and WS and I’d choose Pyro’s ult over WS’s one any day. There are some imprtant factors that the OP didn’t include in their comparisons:

  1. WS’s ult is an ammo regen tool so you have to use it whenever you see a target of opportunity to regen ammo.
  2. Pyro’s ult is a healing tool so you have to save it for a moment you need to heal. This means that when you need your ult to actually kill a special that you can’t kill otherwise, Pyro’s ult has a much greater chance to be available at that moment than WS’s ult.
  3. Pyro’s ult can stun bosses.
  4. Both ults are equally good at killing specials, the only exception is that WS’s ult can potentially kill multiple Rattlings while Pyro’s ult cannot. The slower projectile speed on Pyro’s ult doesn’t matter – its only downside is that other players will “steal your kills” more often. This only hurts your pride.
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WS ult has three distinct arrows that will stop much sooner with trash, but each can take out an elite, if lucky.

Pyro’s 1 missile can pierce many more infantry enemies it only hits a wall with elites and specials.

Actually it don’t its deals more pyro ult is around 137 dmg and waystalker is 50x3 :stuck_out_tongue: to chaos warrior ofc

hahaha no pyro ult is so gimmicky bad at targeting its joke, its quite bad at targeting specials

Alot have responded with that pyro ult has more cleave on unarmored and ws has better armor piercing, i’ll have to test it myself to see.

Does ws ult timer and elite killing potential on one press of a button outweigh the pyro ult tho, pyro ult can stagger bosses, has more cleave on unarmored (still gotta test this, it feels true when playing but it could be deceptive), ws can ult every something like 40 seconds with every cdr talent and can kill more elites.

You misunderstood, WS ult doesn’t have better AP, but Pyro ult doesn’t have ANY at all. It stops with the first armored enemy be it a SV or a CW, the entire damage pool is spent on that enemy.

I don’t think there is better cleave on unarmored on Pyro tho, it’s just you can actually see when it does that.

Pyro ult pathing is unreasonably unreliable compared to WS ult, where the Pyro ult can decide at any point on it’s way to change direction, from a VERY nearby enemy to basiacally any other direction, including skipping other possible enemy targets and just fly off wherever, without spending it’s entire damage pool.

This is only true for certain builds, both your desc of SS and the one of Pyro.

As far as I know there is no cleave on WS, although it may kill multiple salves etc if their heads are in close enough proximity.

If it stops at the first armored enemy doesn’t that make it less armored cleave

WS ult pathing is equally bad, surprises me at times when it avoids an elite or special target and 180s to pick of non important trash mobs that were closer.

Also random fact, you can use weapon special during pyro ult to zoom!

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I’m with Mattie on this one.
Waystalker can stack cooldown, reducing it to roughly 36 seconds (without any cooldown on hit)
Pyro’s can only obtain 10% cooldown, reducing it to 54 seconds (without any cooldown on hit)
Cooldown on ranged has also been nerfed, which has impacted pyro much more than WS.

Trueflight volley can penetrate 15 skaven slaves (5 per projectile)
Trueflight volley can hit 6 unarmoured elites (2 per projectile) and 3 armoured elites (1 per projectile)
123 HS against a bile troll (41 per projectile)

Burning head can penetrate 11 skaven slaves
Burning head can penetrate 3 unarmoured elites and 1 armoured elite
170 HS against a bile troll

Trueflight is capable of one shotting a CW consistently with 30% power and loaded bow.

Would like to point out it’s impossible to one shot a chaos warrior using burning head without a critical hit unless you’ve stacked as much power as possible, talents + barrage

Burning head’s only benefit over Trueflight Volley is it does more single target damage and is capable of staggering bosses.


Well stagger bosses its no small feat. But still its so freaking long animation that often is better to just not use ult

In my book, if it had any AP, it should be able to pass on to a second target, maybe with a crit or something, but it never happens.

Yes i know it doesn’t have any thats what i meant. Also @James gave me all i needed to know.

Burning head is better for raiders (legend): it can kill 2 with one use, Trueshot volley can kill 1 and damage 1.
Burning head is better for monster damage and can stagger.
Trueshot volley can kill more infantry, berserkers and armored targets (up to cata 1).
Killing only 1 sv with Burning head is really unsatisfying though.