Vote our enemies

[debito20091993]

Rate the enemies in Darktide.
First Rank the Concept. then what you generally think about the enemy how it is currently in the game (gonna call it execution in the poll).

Concept = Do you like the general concept of that enemy. For example the Pox Hound. Do you like the Concept of an fast moving, agile hound that can disable the Player.
Its not gonna be essential to rate the concept of every enemy in this game. I won’t give the option to rate the concept of the basic melee grunt.

The numbers don’t represent grades. Higher number = better rating (Give a one if you hate it a six if you like it).

Feel free to elaborate your opinions in the comments. I might do that too.

1. Standart Enemies

1. Groaner/Poxwalker (unarmored grunts) execution

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2. Dreg Bruiser (yellow melee guys with shovel) execution

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3. Scab Bruiser (slightly armored melee guy) execution

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4. Dreg Stalker/Scab Shooter/Scab Stalker (gunman) Concept

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4. Dreg Stalker/Scab Shooter/Scab Stalker (gunman) execution

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2. Elites

5. Dreg Shotgunner Concept

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5. Dreg Shotgunner execution

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6. Dreg/Scab gunner (minigun guys) Concept

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6. Dreg/Scab gunner (minigun guys) execution

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7. Bulwark (Shield Ogryn) Concept

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7. Bulwark (Shield Ogryn) execution

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8. Dreg Rager (Relentless melee enemies) Concept

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8. Dreg Rager (Relentless melee enemies) execution

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9. Scab Rager (Armored relentless melee enemies) Concept

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9. Scab Rager (Armored relentless melee enemies) execution

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10. Crusher (Armored melee Ogryn) Concept

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10. Crusher (Armored melee Ogryn) execution

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11. Reaper (Gun Ogryn) Concept

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11. Reaper (Gun Ogryn) execution

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12. Scab Mauler (Big guy with chainsaw axe) Concept

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12. Scab Mauler (Big guy with chainsaw axe) execution

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3. Specials

13. Dreg Tox Flamer/Scab Flamer Concept

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13. Dreg Tox Flamer/Scab Flamer execution

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14. Bomber Concept

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14. Bomber execution

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15. Mutant Charger Concept

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15. Mutant Charger execution

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16. Pox Hound Concept

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16. Pox Hound execution

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17. Pox Burster Concept

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17. Pox Burster execution

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18. Scab Sniper Concept

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18. Scab Sniper execution

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19. Scab Trapper Concept

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19. Scab Trapper execution

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4. Bosses

20. Beast of Nurgle Concept

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20. Beast of Nurgle execution

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21. Plague Ogryn Concept

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21. Plague Ogryn execution

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22. Daemonhost Concept

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22. Daeimonhost execution

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23. Scab Captain (Boss at mission end) Concept

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23. Scab Captain (Boss at mission end) execution

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[Rocker_Fox]

The bulwark is the perfect example of good idea bad execution.

I think a big shield boy is an ok idea but the fact that the hit box is a u around the front of it rather than being able to shoot the sides is irritating and there is moments where I should be able to shoot their weak point but it counts it as armor and even trying to stagger them is extremely finicky.

Sure 1 isn’t too bad but f me sideways when a mission is throwing 3 or 4 at a time trying to get them to turn around is painful.

Never mind that YOUR RANGED ENEMIES LIKE SNIPERS CAN SHOOT THROUGH THEM.

[debito20091993]

Yeah i agree. They did it like with the shieldvermin in vermintide. Though with the Shieldvermin I had a bit more understading why they did it that way. Most of the would have been prioritist and one shot headshoted before they even had a chance to reach the player if the Hitbox of their shield was as big as the actuall shield. But with the Bulwark its different in my opinion. They are quite tanky and their Shield is much bigger. Making the shield hitbox accurate to the shield visual would have been fine I think. Maybe spawn a few more of them so they can’t get focused down too easely.

[debito20091993]

Overall I think most enemies are totally fine how they are.

Of the grunts I just think the behaviour of the gunman needs to be tweaked a bit.
Sometimes they just don’t switch to melee when they should in my opinion.

About the elites I agree with Rocker_Fox about the Bulwark.
Additionally the Ragers are a bit less fun than the berserkers in Vermintide for me.

With the specials I have a few issues.
Why I usually like the idears for all of them a lot I do think some are lacking in the execution.
While the biggest issues with the Charger have been fixed, it still looks weird how sharp they can take corners.
Though they are still much better than the Pox hound which for me is by far the buggiest, least consistent enemy.
Pox Burster are only a bit annoying when they spawn right behind a door you are fighting in front.
Though this didn’t happen since quite some time for me. I like the rest.

The bosses are the enemies I have the most issues with though.
First I think that bosses should have the very important role of offering change from what your doing basically all the time, fighting hordes.
Bosses should be a fun, interresting challenge just by themselv already with well thought out mechanics. They aren’t thought. They weren’t already in vermintide but I think they got even worse in Darktide. Plague Ogryn is ok but Beast of Nurgle is in my opinion just not fun to fight at all.
Daemon Host is the worst though. I know they are not really supposed to be fought but still Daemon host is in my opinion the worst implemented enemy in Darktide by a good margin.
Left for dead had the witch which played a very similar role but was done a lot better!
Daemon Host is the only enemy where i wouldn’t care if it was removed. Such a cool design wasted on a map obstacle…

Overall though i like the enemies and the variety that Fatshark came up with.

[Anvillior]

Overall I think most enemies are good in concept but they have issues in execution. The ones I have issues with in concept are often the repeat concepts found between dregs and scabs. Dreg Ragers make sense. Scab Ragers (while very cool to look at) don’t fit quite as well in my opinion. Dreg Shotgunners make sense. Scab Shotgunners (while making more sense than Scab Ragers) make less sense with Scab’s longer range design and feel like a needless addition (again, they look cool).

I’d also prefer it if the game tried to oscillate between what faction it spawned and if certain maps were more likely to spawn specific factions. The Torrent should spawn more Dregs as that’s deep down where the cult took hold. Chasm should spawn more Scabs as that’s where logistic systems like the rail stations and ammo caches are. There should still be pods of each in every mission, but the quantities should be skewed. If the game also removed some of the repeats it would mean when the game director shifts towards one faction you will be fighting less of the same enemy with a different flavor.

That out of the way: This is what I’d change faction wise:
Dregs should keep:

• Poxwalkers
• Dreg Bruisers
• Dreg Stalkers
• Dreg Ragers
• Dreg Shotgunner
• Mutant Charger
• Pox Hound
• Pox Burster

Scabs should keep:

• Groaners
• Scab Bruisers
• Scab Shooters
• Scab Gunner
• Scab Mauler
• Scab Flamer
• Scab Bomber
• Scab Sniper
• Scab Trapper

The reasons:
Dregs should be more medium to close range, they are those that are cult members, the longest infested, and the dregs (heh) of society. That means undisciplined Stalkers eager to switch to melee, melee fanatics like Ragers, and close up blasters like Shotgunners (they need to have a shorter minimum firing distance too, but that’s another topic). Mutant chargers and hounds are close in disablers, fitting for the Dreg’s close in design while the Burster is willing (if not eager, even) to die for Nurgle. They get Poxwalkers because they were the first infected near the bottom of the hive.

Scabs should be more disciplined, intent on engaging at range and trying to control enemy positioning. Shooters lay down organized volleys and make good use of cover, Gunners are the step up able to suppress enemy positions and cover those approaching in melee. Maulers use armor to approach those dug in enemies, Bombers and Flamers use fire to flush enemies out and limit their movement options. Snipers pick off exposed players while Trappers sneak up behind you and disable one of your team members. I’d give them Groaners mostly because these are the victims of the Scabs, afflicted but still fresh enough to not have become Poxwalkers.

The remaining units could be found amongst both groups, as it seems unfair to give one side a double ogryn or monster advantage.

[Reginald]

This is a great thread. I’m only going to discuss the ones I think are bad. The rest I think are generally good to excellent. That, for me, includes shooters. I will gloss over minor issues and focus on the key ones.

1. Bulwarks

Concept:
The bulwark provides ranged defense for incoming melee groups, and cover from flamer fire. In theory I would expect them to be hard to deal with in melee but it would also presumably be the primary means of handling them with counter strikes, or flanking manuevers.

Execution:
-Shield “radius”: the shield is so unpleasant to fight around. It is completely disjointed from its visual shape. Fully exposed ogryn backs sometimes block swings despite the shield being way out of radius. It feels horrible. It looks horrible.
-Clipping: This is made worse when enemies I might like to hit are clipping inside of the bulwark. Say a scab shooter or poxwalker is inside the bulwark. poking me while I try to time the only allowable counter swing, stunning me out of my animation, half invisible, unable to be hit itself because the shield keeps catching blows. This sucks.
-Counter attacks: You’d think flanking would work better but due to their shield radius a totally exposed flank can be made immune to ranged or melee fire. When stunned, arms wide, the shield actually protects his back, despite being nowhere near it.

2. Dogs

Concept
A fast moving disabler that is weak to melee but resistant to low stagger ranged attacks. Not a bad notion. But why a dog? And why just one? It feels wrong to have these things as clever specialists. They feel like they’d make more sense in a small pack with a handler as an elite.

Execution
Its diving through its own insides, inside out, phasing through reality, sky high, upside down, don’t bother dodging you’re already on the ground, wait reverse that it changed its mind, now its time to rise and shine. Never mind again, again, it just pounced upon your head. Shove it if you dare, it won’t care. Hit it twice even thrice, it might decide to play nice. No regs, some regs, fleeing the town. Its here to put all of you down.

3. Bombers
Execution:
My main complaint is when 3 of these dudes set up shop and just lock you at a choke. I also really hate being stunned when the bomb blows up even if I’m already actively charging as ogryn or zealot.

4. Poxwalkers and groaners
Concept:
Great. Horde enemies. One with a different behavior tree than the other. Sweet. One is a bit tougher than the other. One more mindless.

Execution:
They are visually undifferentiated enough that most of my friends, who are not familiar with the lore and didn’t bother to play in the psykhanium, had no idea there were two different types of horde enemy. This was confusing for them considering they obviously die faster or slower by a significant margin in some cases.

They also don’t match the lore very well. They look more like skeletal, classic desiccated and necrotized zombie. But they should look more bloated and infected. Less like walking corpses with a rictus and more like shambling bloated mutated beings, insane with the knowledge of the great truth (according to Nurgle) of the meaninglessness of it all. I’d lie to see a bit more color. Current walkers look grey. I’d like to see more green and yellow pustules, more purple tentacles, puffier bodies, and some that look more insane than flat out undead. More color would help alleviate the grey tide that dartide sometimes turns into.

5. PoxBursters
Concept
I love these, actually.

Execution
I can live with them jumping out of doors without warning. What I cannot stand is how they seem totally immune to stagger/stun about half the time. Sometimes I shoot them with a shotgun or shove them and they fall over. Sometimes they just ignore it and dive bomb the whole team. I have shot a poxwalker as many as 8 times with a shotgun with no discernable effect. What is going on here?

6. Daemonhosts
Last but certainly not least!
Concept
Idea: we want Left 4 dead Witch. Adds tension. Don’t mess with it or it kills you.
Lore: Daemonhosts are very dangerous beings that can wipe out whole hab sectors or planets by themselves (depending on their grade) and are extremely dangerous to groups of characters

Execution:

Proposed execution - use Daemonhosts for this role!

To me this isn’t right. Daemonhosts should be more of a boss than a weird thing you just avoid bumping in to. They should be more of a boss fight than a monstrosity spawn. I’d like to see something take their place.