Veteran Subclass/Specialty Ideas

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide Gameplay Feedback
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Hello. Awhile back I made posts or responded to posts about changes that could be made with the Veteran. I decided to combine them all in to one post and share some new ideas or thoughts

To understand what I am about to post… I need to talk about the numbers first. I did some Google Searching prior to this post to see if the core numbers have changed. I am not seeing anything to indicate they did

Veteran is a 1.25 second stamina regeneration delay. Ogryn is 1. Zealot is .75. And Psyker is .50. Base Crit chance did change over time going down to a 5% (from a 10%). There are certain passives to get that number up but they require your alt fire or reloading

One other thing I wish to cover before getting in to it is the “Veteran is fine” comments. If there is a specific reason you think that then post it. Saying just that doesn’t give me a lot to work with

Even then it will take a good reason because I disagree that the Veteran is fine for long term game play. I think it is fine for an introduction in to how this class will play once you start reaching the specialties or sub classes. That is what I will get in to now

Marksman:

Hot Shot Las Gun, Marksman variant. Comes with optical camo, movement speed, higher ranged crit chances and weak spot damage

One of the annoying things is that one enemy that will just randomly spawn behind you and run over to you. Back in the day the Veteran did have optical camo for sitting still… Reducing your threat. It didn’t completely remove this annoyance but it did reduce it… Giving you more time to try and focus on supporting your team

One of the issues with the Veteran is not being able to penetrate armor as efficiently. I think that a Hot Shot variant can fill that role. The older Las Guns can be a more versatile choice. Their Near % damage numbers can be bumped up as part of that

Heavy Weapons:

Backpack based weaponry like the Plasma Gun and Hot Shot Las Gun, Volley variant. The focus is damage and lots of it at any time

For this particular specialty it can choose to specialize in to the Volley or Plasma gun. Each with their own unique choices. For example the Plasma specialty consumes less ammo and has a faster charge time. The Volley gets better suppression values

Brawler:

Shotguns, Pistols, and Melee weapon specialty. The focus is mobility, stamina regeneration, and a reduction in stamina regeneration delay

For specialty choices it can focus on the Tactical Axe, Power/Claw Sword, or Chain weaponry. If it chooses the Tactical axe it gains finesse and crit chance bonuses. If it goes with Power/Claw, it gets better group damage. Chain weapons will get the ability to stack bleed or do more bleed damage

Side Note:

I did consider the Bolt Gun and its various ammunition types for the Heavy Weapon specialty. I decided it was best to leave that for the Zealot. I think there could be a fire specialty or sub class using its Inferno Rounds

That is all I can think of at this time. I am hoping that I am providing a better approach than previous attempts

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Veteran is fine as-is because I one-shot Crushers on Damnation with my Plasma Gun when I headshot them with its charged attack.

Seriously, pair a Plasma Gun with a Mk VII Shovel and reap your rewards. All you need on top of that is “Bring it Down!”, “Precision Strikes” and “Superiority Complex” and I personally guarantee that you’ll never go down again - unless either you or your teammates are REALLY bad at the game, in that event your only options are to get better or lower the difficulty.

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I’m not sure i understand, do you which for additional branches that centre around those buff or what ?

Or new branches with blitz/ability and stuff ?

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Plasma gun is strong I wont deny that but forcing people to a particular play style or weapon is never a good design. Think about it this way… If Hot Shot Las Guns and Pistols were added, it would provide new ways to deal with armor that line up with the passives more efficiently than other methods

Also… While I can use the Plasma Gun… I am better at responding to long distances. Distances that the Plasma gun does not do well with

I would prefer new branches with blitz/abilities however… I recognize that the Darktide and Vermintide community is a bit more difficult to work with (when compared to other game communities). To be clear I am not saying it in a bad way… It is what it is

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Mama concedes that certain ranged weapons available to Veterans do need some reworks in order to make them as viable as the Plasma Gun.

Helbores, for example, are a better Spear than Lasgun half of the time with that Emperor-forsaken pullout time. The Kantrael MG XII needs a buff in order to compete with the MG IV and MG Ia. Throne, more Lasgun variants in general would be a BIG help too!

Aww, mama would never dispute the idea of adding Hellguns and Hellpistols to the game, as they are actually her favourite 40K weapons!

Pardon?

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A rework is a good way of wording it… At least for part of it. The VI, 1a and XIII need their Near % changed to be a more versatile weapon. If you look under stopping power… The first Near line is 46-49% on the two different grades XIII that I have

Assuming that a new sub class and new weapons were added… That and a few other fixes (like the break point) should give it a new life and new purpose

I will admit the Hot Shot Las weaponry is interesting. I am surprised they wern’t added. They added all the special stuff in Vermintide 2 like with Grail Knight and things. Then Darktide didn’t get the same love

Long distances as in up to 50 meters. That is about the range I am capable of with good position on some maps. On the Map where you have to wait for the elevator (I forget the name)… I hit a Gunner at 82 meters (I tagged it to highlite it so I could see its outline)

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the grail knight was added >2 years after VT2s initial release. all the class dlcs were added significantly later.

the plasma gun is one of the best guns for dealing with threats close & at a distance - I see players hit sh*t the size of a few pixels with pinpoint accuracy all the time.

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Nah pretty sure it’s 1 second now. If you take both stam regen delay nodes you have Psyker regen delay.

Haven’t found many up to date guides just asking on the official discord is usually the best place to get up to date info. Google won’t get you far.

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Fat Shark has been weird for awhile now. That said, felt like two major things happened. Change of ownership of Fat Shark, and a need to release early to get something on the bottom line.

Between them, it almost feels like Fat Shark is hiding from the players, because they don’t talk much, but we got a massive update in october that fixed a ton of problem that were there since launch. The skill trees were a huge improvement.

And they have always been a bit slow. There’s tons of reasons to be cross with them, but it’s at least normal for them to be slow on releases. The absolute refusal to get crafting to a good place though? That’s just wonky.

For a pistol, that’s long. For a rifle, that’s close. Generally a rifle should be close range under 100, and still easy to use to 200 meters, decent out to 400. That said, real rifle ranges are rarely found in games. Only place we really have ‘long range’ in darktide is the train yard.

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That’s really odd. I’ve never experienced any issues with long range combat with my Plasma Gun. Heck, I can shoot enemies from a fair distance away through walls because… well, a Plasma Gun IS supposed to melt through walls. Even the bracing for the Plasma Gun is accurate enough for me to easily hit Snipers from the opposite side of Consignment Yard’s final area.

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Does it in Tide though? I didn’t know that, and I’m glad to learn it.

TBH, MOST weapons should penetrate a certain amount of cover, but it’s rarely modeled in games. A normal rifle will shoot through a car as long as it doesn’t hit the engine or the like.

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You can shoot through a surprising amount of cover with a plasma gun.

It’s the only gun that does this as far as I know.

Even revolver doesn’t shoot through little things like railings.

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Mama will tell you right now that you can bet your sweet bippy they do :wink:

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If the Plasma gun is working for you all then great. I am noticing it is a lot easier to hit with the XIII than the Plasma at those ranges… Still or moving. I should of worded that better now that I re-read my commentary

True. It is hard to implement real life measurements to a game. That said it does depend on the rifle you are using. When I trained with the M14, we were doing 500 yards (457 meters). Smaller rifles than that like the ARX 200 only train for 300 yards max (274 meters). Either way… I am surprised the XIII, 1a, and VI aren’t designed like your average infantry rifle (like the ARX 200)… Where it handles a wide variety of ranges

True Fatshark doesn’t talk much. I have tried asking a few Streamers who run exclusively Vermintide and Darktide… And are often featured. They said they don’t talk to them much as well

I understand things take time but the design of the crafting system and weapons seems hastily made or poorly planned (to me)

And yes the Plasma gun does punch through cover. I have done testing on that and determined the amount it can punch through is tied to the charge time. There is a blessing called Volatile. It is 2.5-4% charge speed when on low overheat. Stacks 5 times

That is the quickest way to see it go full insanity

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ARX? People almost never mention that… Usually Vietnam guys who like the M-14 were down on the AR-15/M-16 family, called it the ‘poodle shooter’ because of the small bullet.

Hey, I can’t say for certain, but I think you ran into a campfire myth that is a misinterpretation of a government procurement philosophy.

After ww2, when most were celebrating peace for all time, the pros were planning for the next war, and seeing ‘what was learned.’ One was most troops under combat conditions don’t shoot past 200 yards, except the guy with the light machine gun. Past 200, they didn’t see them, didn’t think they would hit, or If they did, they used heavy weapons.

Thus, the ideal rifle would be one optimized for inside the range most troops would actually use them at without a lot of shouting. And it should also be full auto, since the light machine gunner would ALWAYS open up. Thus the M-16, AK, a ton of Euro ideas…

But people who have been in the service lately tell me they still train (some) out to 500, though a lot of the worse ones planning on a non-combat mos will pass a buddy a magazine and get him to hit the long targets when the range master isn’t watching.

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Veteran has more armour penetration feats (4) than any other class (Ogryn has 2).

As for enemies sneaking up from behind, its litterally the mechanic that balances heavy weapons. Whereas weapons like the revolver can be stowed and drawn instantly, the bolter, flamer, and hellbores take commitment to use. Which is why they all have a bash as their special attack.

I do think the veteran needs some additional incentives to take weapons other than the revolver and plasma gun. I think some mechanics built around suppression would make weapons like the braced autoguns more enticing.

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Mama thinks that Veterans could definitely make use of a Hellgun for the sake of making their Suppression Modifiers more than just glorified Tax Nodes :wink:

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Eh, Got to be a better way. Sometimes the game literally spawns them without any sound whatsoever behind you. Not even come out a door, fall from above, etc, but just poof, there.

I call them “cheat spawns” and I hope it catches on. It’s been a thing since at least V2.

Seems like it isn’t as bad as it used to be, but it still happens. And usually it’s not the most dangerous thing, it’s just really, really irritating as it limits your play style, and you can’t like, clear a room and then use it as your rear area in a realistic way.

You can say 'well, that’s ‘tide games,’ and it is, but it’s still sand in your small clothes to do a careful check and have the spawn direction go 'ha ha ha!"

This is a good point. Suppression seems weird in this game, maybe I need to read up on it. Anyone have a good resource on it’s current implementation?

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I agree that silent spawns are BS, I was more referring to enemies being able to flank at all.

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That that wouldn’t be such a big thing if they made noise as they did it and came from someplace logical, (ideally more logical then ‘door that only opens for bad guys’ or ’ crazy long drop that would break ankles.’

It’s tide, you get used to it being this way, but grinds a bit and it’s why melee focused vets are most common then hard range focus.