Oh and lets not forget sic’ing their company of shills and white knights on my posts again. Yet another one “hidden by community flags.” Funny how crap from the shills like Icemount, Raledil, etc can be hit a dozen times and nothing happens to them. But anything from people who dare to be critical gets buried within 24 hours.
Even Blizzard wasn’t this overt with censoring critical opinions. Oh and Blizzard could at least get its junk working most of the time. Hotfix managed to somehow break my drivers (it was literally the only thing that changed). Completely reinstalled and updated and it worked for about 12 hours. Went to log in - same issue. How do you create a patch with a chance of breaking drivers repeatedly?
Veteran was clearly overtuned before, what with all his insane passive bonuses (not even linked to any talents), with the only downside really being his stamina regen rate and delay.
Now he’s got almost nothing left, with the same downsides.
I mean, he’s playable, but even if you really specialize your Vet build, a well-rounded Psyker or Zealot will do the job just as well, or even better.
In particular, Vet now feels really really fragile. Maybe his +Toughness nodes need to all be +20 or +25 instead of +15.
Veterans were NOT over-tuned before this mess. You people need to stop repeating that bullcrap just because it was what some twit streamer said to stir up rage and get more views. The closest Darktide had to overtuned at the start was the flamer and that was due to FatShark being twits who never documented the armor reduction on Chastise and that the flamer basically double-dipped on it (as it had its own armor reduction) when it wasn’t supposed to. Had they just fixed that last part it would have been fine. Just like if they had fixed the bug that caused the power sword to not count certain swings as depleting a charge it would have been fine and people might (aside from the usually anti-Veteran shills) eventually realized that.
Its not just the amount per node. Its where they are so deep down in the tree that you can barely get two much less three, what you had to do to get to them, and how little the rest of the tree has that is useful. And forget about useful abilities that are actually FUN once the initial shiny toy effect wears off. Its the utter lack of capstones and their associated boost when its not that difficult to create them (I came up with 3 of them and associated supporting nodes in 15 minutes one night). Its the talents placed where the best choices to work with them are on the other side of the tree causing us to either put up with subpar abilties or getting a few that work somewhat like what we had but at the cost of not reaching all the nodes we need just regain a sliver of survivability. Its the massive over-reliance on abilities that ONLY activate on elite kills when everyone and his dead mother is doing the same thing. Its having the few might-be-decent abilities only work with specific weapons (hint: shock trooper) while others carry a hell of a tax just to bring an ability close to something another class has baseline (ex. revive boost to shout, extra charge on stealth). In other words our entire tree is a mess and the talents in them are either so watered down that its “pick the least weak one” or “dump 3 or 4 talents just to bring it close to what someone else has without any extra investment”, or they’re placed so far apart that the price of getting both so they can work together is losing out on everything else you need just to survive a random hit.
We need to either have everything set to the exact same baseline as psykers and zealot and a tree with equally accessible boosts that provide equally large gains that trigger on either any kill or any elite kill in coherency, or we need our old passives back in full strength and the whiny twits can go cry in a dark alley. And I won’t shed a single tear that isn’t one of joy if the later happens. I am sick and tired of my classes becoming the sacrifical goat so a bunch of basement dwelling morons can keep thinking their constant failures to get “best in show” is the result of someone else playing an overpowered class instead of their own willful refusal to even try to learn from their mistakes.
ammo replenish got nerfed, we cant get the old one anymore, ammo capacity got nerfed by 15%, and requires you to dig deep in a specific build rather than easy to get.
kanteral ammo is good, yet your dps is static, no way to increase it or anything, its good but fails in burst DPS, a scab wave or dreg wave is a nightmare to you, also it does drain lot of ammo if you are the only anti ranged in the squad, which is mostly.
grenades was the failsafe or your CC, got stuck in a wave, nade yourself, need to revive someone nade them, etc. , the grenade was not OP or above average was okayish, yet spammable , now not spammable anymore and you get less.
Psyker Player detected.
Pskyers were good before, once flammer got nerfed, I seen blue fire on a daily basis.
100% agreeing with this guy! Maby they hit veteran a bit to hard with the nerfhammer, but to say that he is weak now or to try to compare veteran to old old psyker, is heresy on an exterminatus threat level. The work that was needed to play a veteran vs. Preacher or Psyker was laughable. The Camo expert combined with Las gun XII was so bonkers good, with 4 get out of jail free cards (granades) and the Power Sword made the Veteran a better melee class than Zelot Preacher.
Veteran is still strong and can perform very well with multiple different builds and weapons.
The only critic i will give the veteran now is the fact that all the autoguns gun out of ammo a bit to fast. Maby some other weapons as well, but idk.
And when it comes to the psyker i still think the class should be buffed when it comes to brain burst and tweaked when it comes to smite as it is a bit boring to just hold a button and move slow.
Just gimme faster reliads, less sway and recoil and more ammo regeneration. Vet is about guns and precision.
No need to deal a lot of damage, just gimme to shoot
I never said they weren’t nerfed, but it is for better balance of the game calsses.
As for your arguments, I find them lacking. Static DPS… on crit build Recon on even Kanteral, you must have not played varied builds, just tried to make what worked earlier. I mean your choice, but please, don’t try to convice everyone that current vet class options have no benefits.
Grenadier… you can now build into extra nades, replenish nades per 60 s and nades on kills via aura, all simultaniously… what are you on about ??
In any case, it is just an opinion, you don’t have to agree nor try to convince me, I see both nerfs and overall betterment of team balance in different setups.
Regardles if you are a diehard vet, FS either could’ve nerfed Vet to the ground and equalize it to other classes, or bump up others while nerfing Vet slightly.
I am just glad it is the latter.
Bolter build with at least 2 variants (either reload or Granadier).
K12/Helbore for those who have really good aim (also with Grenadier setup).
Braced Autogun for really unending shooting.
Autopistol for brainless mutant melting.
Kantreal IX firebreath spam build.
Laspistol for some Comissar cosplay walking into shooters and executing them one by one.
Plasma with at least 3 viable setups (all feeling different) only a bit weaker than top builds (due to ammo issues). Could even run Knife with it if there is at least some horde-clear.
These were all viable builds with playstyles unique to veterans. You could also run Recon and while it was weaker it was the best anti-shooter weapon while still being good against elites (it was just bad against specials).
Now what we have that is special, unique, and good Vet?
K12/Helbore precision build.
Headhunter Autogun which is also a precision build.
Recon melter build.
While K12/Helbore can be fun to some, Recon melter is more boring than the old Autopistol build.
The only actual new stuff we have is the variety of VoC support builds, which are fun but at that point, you can just go play a zealot. It’s viable sure, but just touches other classes.
Yeah, it’s super good. We still have what we had before just cut up and put all over the place, with even 2 nerfs where Demolition team doesn’t even help the Zealot with stun nades, (I know it’s because of the nuke) and Extra Nade is to get back what we had (Frag nerfed from 4 to 3 at base), and you have to go out of your way to pick it.
Krak is fun but crap. Smoke is actual crap.
So basically we got 2-3 good build, and the viable VoC build with 2 variety (full Melee or Support focus) which are more or less budget Zealot while being a Survivalist Bot (if you are feeling being nice).
Again the main issue here is very little new stuff, and if you don’t enjoy Precision builds with K12/Helbore/HHauto you can get bent.
It’s not fun. Especially with half the classes running around the map and very little teamplay due to every other class apart from Vet being incredibly overtuned.
I said earlier on another thread [if you see this @Mayson, sorry for repeating myself here] that I wish they’d given the other classes their evolutions and just entirely overlooked the veteran because frankly, I’d have preferred to receive nothing while all the other kids got their news toys. At least then I’d still be able to play with what I had.
But this is more like Santa Clause came in and stomped on my Lego set, spread it across different parts of my house, and said “There. Now you have more playstyle variety. You’re welcome”.
MGXII build is actually worse than it was before, and it was already bad.
Helbore is at least more viable now.
Recon builds are crappier Autopistol/Heavy Braced builds with a higher average TTK but effective against every armour type. You have to get a good amount of headshots to make the builds work since they rely on headshot crits, but the recon las is among the easiest weapons in the game to do this with.
Good ranged Veteran playstyles definitely got reduced in variety and are overall nerfed in efficacy. More weapons are less terribly awful now, but the best ranged Veteran builds are significantly worse than the old ones.
Surgical Helbore builds are definitely the coolest ranged Veteran option at the moment, but there are many nuisances and hedges associated with them that didn’t need to be there. The lack of input buffering on Helbore charge needs to be addressed, and the Surgical blessing on the Helbore needs to change from time in ADS to a binary 100%/0% buff for a fully charged hit that lands. This change would also make the faster firing marks a lot more viable than they are. They currently barely benefit at all from the surgical buff.
IDK man, I used to play with people running K12 and they would just pop-pop every special including dogs incredibly fast. People running helbore were doing the same, but also killing Crushers.
This build worked best for me with recon (it has some minimal flexibility, but Shock Trooper, Rending Strikes, and Onslaught are an absolute must):
I don’t feel it being very headshot-dependent. It helps but is not absolutely required. I agree isn’t as good as old autopistol or braced. It is good, but not that good.
I actually loved playing Braced Autogun on Vet before the update, while current recon doesn’t feel good to play at all.
MGXII has never been able to reliably one shot dogs, especially out of ult. It may have been possible in ult with an Infested perk. Using the standard 25 flak, 25 maniac, dogs will die in one headshot in ult if it crits.
MGXII is by far my favourite gun in Darktide. I used to run it almost exclusively and top the scoreboard consistently with it. The problem is using nearly anything else is faster, easier, and results in higher damage. The MGXII is a gun that needs to be consistently one-shot headshotting almost everything in the game to be worthwhile, and nothing should be able to totally resist multiple headshots, including Crushers. It is not that.
The weapon needs built in armour penetration on weakspot, and its damage values to be tweaked in such a way where breakpoints are always considered. This weapon should never be “just missing” a breakpoint.
Opening salvo or +weakspot damage? I’ve run that combo to oneshot trappers on headshot without ult. I was never an incredibly good shot but I’ve seen some incredible stuff from K12 players.
Trappers die in one non-Ulted headshot outside of Ult on my 80/80 Flak/Maniac. I don’t know what the exact cutoff is.
Prepatch, most enemies died in one headshot in Ult, some without Ult, no crits required. After patch, gunners and shotgunners can survive in ult if they’re close enough and the shot isn’t a crit. It’s absolutely maddening.
It’s a fun weapon, but even if you’re hitting 80% accuracy and 40-50% headshot rates (these are INSANELY high numbers, btw) the weapon just isn’t objectively worth it outside of the fun factor.
It’s fun. It’s the highest skill ceiling ranged weapon in the game. It also happens to not really reward the player for the amount of skill and work required to use it properly.
I’m sorry I entirely meant before the update when talking about K12 with Dogs, Trapper breakpoints, and seeing people deleting specials one after another including dogs.