That’s not necessarily true anymore with the Class Overhaul. I’m not asking for anything over-the-top, just a new Flamer variant or maybe even a Melta to diversify the Zealot’s unique ranged weapons - just a little bit.
The main ranged focus does need to be placed on the Veterans, though. Stub Guns, Hellguns, etc., there’s plenty of options for future Veteran weaponry that Zealots should NEVER be able to touch.
Agreed. Zealots should get those hot short-ranged weapons so that their melees are still the main aspect of their build. Veterans need to get more ranged love because the Executioner’s Stance is really falling behind due to that lack of ranged Vet weapon diversity. Neither Helbores nor Plasma Guns are good for ES. Helbore with ES just feels like your Vet’s holding his breath while shooting and the Plasma Gun… well that’s probably not gonna end well unless they bring back that auto-reload with it to vent the heat.
Hellguns and hot shots are the same thing seems like maybe you didn’t know but I could be wrong.
I’d give hellguns and pistols as veteran unique because ive not seen any lore that states zealots use them and lost stating its one of the best guardsmen weapons.
Happy for zealots ro have more purging flamers and a melta gun but I would want vet to have a melta to because thats another one of their staples. Not bothered about stub guns because i think they’re boring for 40k but they make sense.
I would also like to see the possibility, maybe a talent, that allows you to weild a melee item in one hand a pistol in the other for all 3 human classes. This would remove ads and reduce deffensive ability (dissadvantages) but add new offensive options with greater mobility.
Do you think I am swapping weapons just once for it?! 
So am I, but also killing the horde in the process
(as everyone should, not just expecting someone else to do that for you).
Maybe it might not work with your playstyle or mindset, whatever.
You know “fool with a tool is still a fool”.
As for me, I am not reloading Plasma Gun at all for the entire run 
I’m aware, I just think Hellgun sounds cooler.
Agreed.
I’m happy for the Vet to have a Melta as well provided that the Zealot gets a new Flamer variant, maybe something with a little more range at the cost of clouding, like a WW2-era Flamethrower.
Sounds pretty fun 
Maybe for Ogryn we can wield a Shovel with our Slab Shield.
I just tested it in pyskanum. Went from 6/117 to 63/117 after 3 cycles of ten stacks and one attack. Just swaping weapons doesn’t do anything you have to get kills with ranged and melee.
I litterally just tested it so you’re 100% wrong. I’d say that talent might even be broken or it multiplies in some weird way that makes it naff for the plasma gun. For the revolver idk.
Shocking news, seriously?!
Because you know, it already says so in the talent description:
You were picky with what I wrote so there you go.
Point is I know you’re lying because I just proved it and anyone reading this can try it for themselves.
I will now try in a match and make a concious effort to use the horde to relaod. Even though you have more important priorities in that situation and the horde is when you need your weapon fully loaded not afterwards.
The point is you are unable to sum up simple things into one picture.
Might be because of a general weakness of the mind, might be something else (or more).
Here you go, for the entire run a guy did just a single reload (while he wasn’t even trying to convert stacks into mag-replenish):
Really doubt it will teach you something, but maybe someone else will find it useful.
Just tried it. Definitely better than psykanum but still not optimul build.
I will look at my melee thresholds and time to kill again but other than that it remains a bad talent considering other options and if you use your plasma gun as much as I do you still need to reload and kill a lot before it can even hope to hit you.
Yeah but you didn’t srate that and you were being obtuse with me about 3.3% so 
They aren’t more powerful, and revolvers are notably weaker on the other classes.
Veteran can give them an additional 25% crit from deadeye, 30% weakpoint damage, 15% more base damage vs elites and specials which might as well be just 15% more damage in general, and 10% raw generic ranged damage.
Oh, and the reload talents for the very slow reloading gun. Uptime is kind of important.
Intellectually dishonest to pretend that access to the same weaponry means they are on par when there are so many other factors at play.
I’d get your complaint if plasma was available to everyone.
It really isn’t. Worst case scenario I’ve been in is having to use VoC for space, and completing the reload with swap cancelling while I threw in some melee. The reload saves where you are at. It’s very forgiving.
Sprint cancelling is dumb. Do swap cancel.
Only if it crits in regards to any melee elite. They had to sit there, and use surgical most likely. Committing time to a shot on an otherwise very fast paced class is not that big of a deal.
I stopped using revolver on my Zealot, and went with MK I autogun. It’s more reliable on breakpoints unless I were to roll a much much better revolver.
We’re 2nd fastest class in the game my guy. You’re using a shovel by the context of this paragraph which has very decent mobility. You should be able to kite just fine.
Yes they are in a good place despite all those flaws you mentioned. Ranged is an extremely powerful component in what is otherwise a heavy melee game, and we are the ranged power house despite what you say otherwise.
I do think our Keystones are a bit meh. Especially in comparison to Zealots, but only because they require so much more effort than any other classes. They give plenty of power.
EDIT: I do think MF should be changed to not work for autoguns which is what it currently only makes a difference for, and in exchange giving it a bigger power boost since it makes no difference on the single fire weapons in terms of breakpoints.
Only adding this in here because it would be inconsistent of me to not to.
Is it like that? Talent is written as “up to 3.3%” as if it’s only giving 0.33% a stack.
But I only tried it a couple of times with shotguns, revolvers, and bolter and absolutely hated it.
Edit: nvm, i see a video posted.
FS fix your tooltips
Edit the 2nd: it still doesn’t make sense, I never see him get a third of his ammo back from 10 stacks unless math is magic and nothing is real.
I highly disagree with Zealot being a better ranged operative than Veteran. It is objectively false. Zealot only has 3 passives that actually buff ranged damage at all, and they’re all situational. One requires you to be close, the other requires you to backstab them, and the third is for weakspot/critical damage on a successful dodge.
The first one is relevant at all because the zealot is a melee-focused hybrid and is always close to the enemy more often than not.
Veteran does just fine if you want good stamina and want to be durable in melee. It also requires you to build for it. You can’t have your cake and eat it too—but you can always use a Columnus Infantry Auto with Raking Fire and a melee-oriented Infiltrate build. That is easily an option…
I also suggest investing in a +3 Stamina curio. Block Efficiency has very consistent returns as a curio blessing. It’s massive QOL for all 3 human operatives.
Plasma Gun is currently the strongest ranged weapon in the game, and a proper build can one-shot T5 Crushers on a fully charged weakspot hit with minimal damage buffs.
Is the Revolver really good? Yeah, but it’s not great if the player can’t consistently line up weakspots. 5 rounds in the cylinder is extremely limiting for people who aren’t hot shots, and the reserve can and will drain quickly if the player is blowing 2-4 shots per elite/specialist. It’s a high-skill, high-reward gun.
For the plasma gun you can get a lot done without headshots, and you can shoot it somewhere around 40 times uncharged before you have to reload.
I personally think Veteran is overpowered now. So much so that Shout build support Vets can make any mission a total cakewalk with virtually infinite toughness generation for the whole team. Melee Vets can apply a whopping 60% brittleness on any enemy for the whole team. Frag grenades bleed out mixed hordes in seconds. Vets get a free grenade every 60 seconds. It’s so easy to play a Vet right now.
Agreed up to the point where you called vet overpowered.
Only truly op class in the game atm (using the metric of other classes and not the content they fight otherwise all of them are op) is Zealot.
Fastest movement, highest melee dps, amazing survivability which paired up with the movement + stun immunity (and non massive size) makes them even safer than ogryn. They cant execute specials as well as vet but they still arent remotely bad at it.
Theres a reason almost every single true solo run is zealot.
I’ve given up on melee as a vet since I leveled my zealot. It will never hold a candle to, and is considerably easier. Which is fine that would be me complaining about trying to be ranged on zealot who CAN do some crazy ranged burst with fotf and any non martyrdom keystone, but will ultimately always come up short in the ranged department by comparison.
I’m not asking for nerfs mind you. Its still PvE afterall. There’s always going to be a top class for any game. I’d rather it be the one with lower need for ammo. Better for game health.
My Vet with Plasma Gun/Mk VII Shovel feels absolutely broken until I see that Zealot.
Zealot mains are either really bad at the game and die multiple times in a match or they can solo and leave the team behind with no real issue. It’s really, really weird.
You can wake me up from a drunken stupor and I can still give you at least 5 ranged weapons that the Zealot should NEVER have access to for the sake of Veterans remaining viable.
It’s just not that fun to use.
Absolutely disagree. I started off using revolver and then swapped to plasma gun because I just find it to be better. Maybe you are missing breakpoints, because I’m 1 or 2 tapping everything.
You’re not that fun either >:U
It’s a bfg, the gun to use when the guard needs a something or three extra dead.