Been experimenting since the patch released, this is my final conclusion. If you think otherwise I hope you can change my mind. Not joking, I really want to be wrong here.
My current builds, see if you can spot any patterns:
Squad DMR:
Krieg Sniper:
Tempestus Scion Sapper:
Grenadier:
Officer:
P.S. Inb4 Skill Issue Memes. . .
unless you play like a crackhead every game
If you exclusively play premades, have John Wick reflexes, and Swedish fiber? Sure, maybe? Geez, one of the builds is, literally, a sniper build buddy. I’ve written tens of posts bitching about crackheads too. So spare me the trolling.
ye and honestly, even with Iron will and confirmed kill the first mauler overhead that tracks you from 10 meters can still 100 - 0 you
i use to melee a lot and that is my main thing
I don’t use either of those talents
That means I’m john wick 0=
Neither do I, but I’m mostly brute-forcing a brauto into the ranged path and being a black hole for ammo pickups.
How tf ya’ll keep yourselves from spontaneously combusting the moment a thin air spawn vibe checks you or slaps your ass though!?
I mostly just get slapped and chunked for my entire toughness bar and most of my health. 
Thankfully it’s not a super common occurrence, even with the game’s current tendency to spawn enemies within ass-stabbing distance. I’ve been using a brauto as a melee weapon basically since launch and I’ve long since accepted that blocking is a luxury, so at this point I’m really good (though not perfect) at just not getting slapped.
Cat like reflexes and energy drink fueled situational awareness
It’s hard to get hit by less than 3 maulers at same time, unless one of those remember how ice skate.
So the overall consensus seems to be: learn2dodge/get on Swedish fiber? I can dodge plenty fine. So, I guess I’ll have to reach out to the nearest consulate to me and see if I can go over on a work visa or something. . .
I agree with your title personally, though I think if you run shout without revive you can probably get by fine without confirmed kill.
Even if people get away without it, vast majority of players absolutely will perform much better overall by prioritising those talents.
I learned it the hard way in the first day or two after the update. I was getting spanked by trash far too often, and you need to be ~self-sufficient. It’s totally worth missing out any damage talents going all the way down a node:
you don’t dish out damage when you’re downed.
I immediately spammed my buddies with this info.
I even grab Close Order Drill along with Iron Will and Confirmed Kill since it’s right at the top, despite points being sparse.
Early on I actually made some build without these talent and somehow seem to do fine for most part, but I respec it to have them later anyway because I’d rather not run like headless chicken when my toughness get chunked too fast to my liking.
Unless I run voice of command or infiltrate ofc, also infiltrate will get its cooldown buff soon too so I’m really glad for that.
There is no learn2dodge while enemies silently spawn with their hand down your pants. If you aren’t running the good toughness talents, the best you can do is keep your head on a swivel and hope.
Only reason I’m not running them is because the vet tree is bunk and it costs a billion points to get something approaching a comprehensive talent set.
Not really, frags and ammo outclass everything. Its 2 points for infinite grenades running any ult, and then you prioritize those bottom nodes with whichever bonuses you like. The blessing that buffs weapon damage after swapping is carrying my plasma loadout atm. There just is nothing for shotguns or infantry autos, but next update.
What makes me sad is the awful team auras aren’t getting a look at next update. Just make Survivalist the only pick if there isn’t going to be choice in game, lol. But the idea of Vet being more than grenade and ammo monkey should intrigue all.
I legit despise your weapon loadouts, but the core premise of this post I can somewhat agree with.
I think it really depends on how your team plays, i’ve gotten away with some absurdly glass cannon builds on Vet, but im in voice, with a good comp, playing together. I think for QP, these talents are pretty much mandatory, unless your team is regularly able to engage enemy fireteams in melee and shut down their ranged viability.
Losing Camo, really hurt the gun emplacement playstyle of T5+ vet
Also, unrelated curious why you opt for the Kantrael La, vs the MG XII
Not trying to pick a fight, but I’m genuinely curious why if you’re willing to elaborate.
I agree.
It’s still there with infiltrate + low profile + overwatch+ CD reduction talent. It’s just that the devs upped the skill floor for it so it’s not as abuseable, and gatekeeps it from the usual corner campers that gave camo its bad rep. On paper thnx to the addition of rending talents the playstyle was actually buffed since most of them seemed to love run reccy lasguns for some reason.
Mk12 is objectively better when it comes to DMG potential and breakpoints, but doesn’t work for a infernus build. The 1a has better synergy with the +crit perk, and headhunter due to it’s higher rate of fire and manageable recoil pattern. The carbine lasgun is better in this regard but it’s dmg is too low to be worthwhile anywhere above non-STG Auric T5s. I wish lasguns had access to surgical. . .
Just absolutely hate the axe, but I see why you use it. As for Inferuns, I assume thats just for boss pressure mostly? The MGXII is def lacking there, but man just 2 tapping or crit / headshotting everything into oblivion feels fantastic.
Veteran is simply not tanky enough. He is (in other systems) the essential martial class. Tough in any kind of fight and fit as a fiddle. But in darktide he’s a wheezing asthmatic that is afriad of a scrap and falls down to a stiff breeze. Its really a shame. Hopefully some better toughness generation can be added to his tree so he can actually survive properly.